The I'm an idiot if I don't vote Obama is dependent upon 3 lies.

1. There is no difference between Bush and McCain.

2. There is no difference between Obama and Clinton.

3. The issues important to me are exactly the same ones that are important to you.

The YouDon'tHaveAnyChoiceSoSuckItUpAndVoteForTheSpecialInterestCandidateWeStickYouWith democrats would prefer I not be interested in whether or not the system is rigged, or whether it is inclusive. I don't have any other choice right? Wrong. I am a centrist democrat and am more interested in seeing a sick version of democracy die.

2 Presidents in 40 years. It must be my fault and not the party's.

I believe in taxation of the wealthy and I abhor deficit spending. The Economy under Bill Clinton was astounding and I believe Hill could have brought it back. Iraq and Roe are not what I live and die for. I don't care what Hill says I should do, I was voting for policies not persons. It's not all about her, it is about how she would govern. The concept of a fair democracy is vastly more important than the diff between Obama and my views and McCain and my views. The thin veneer of Obama as a Unifier is in serious trouble. Obama will lose and centrist democrats will heave a collective yawn, we've seen machine selected candidates lose before.

I lived in Spain and was DELIGHTED to be able to use as my last names, the last names of my mom and dad. It saddened me to return to the U.S. and have to be limited to my husband's name. When I divorced, I took my original last name I'd had: my father's.

I've tried to locate female friends from high school and haven't been able to. Entire identities disappear because of this stupid archaic rule from back when women were nothing but a possession. When are we going to change this? Or can we do the same thing to men, so their identities, too, disappear?

Just curious. Yesterday and the day before there were LOTS of them pretending to be Democrats. Luckily I identified them because they smelled of Karl Rove's armpits.

The PUMA's (and their like) all scream "HRC got 19 million votes, 19 million votes, 19 million votes!!! You can't ignore 19 million votes."

um...so...what about Barack Obama's 19 million, "plus a few" votes?! The PUMAs want to see the MORE than 19 million votes "ignored" and that would be justice?

They wanted the delegates to be *convinced* to vote for HRC because by persuasion that HRC would do a better job, EVEN IF THE POPULAR VOTE WENT TO Obama? Doesn't they realize that would have been the same as how Bush "stole" the election in 2000?

I like HRC, but are the PUMA's psycho? They only make me more glad that Obama won. Those clinging to HRC even to the destruction of her own legacy and wishes should indeed vote Republican. They and the party deserve each other.

You're all mad because you are the *donors*!

Fair enough, ruwood. You didn't get what you paid for this year.

Hasn't it dawned on you that Hillary isn't the type to retire at 77 but at 73.... ?? She doesn't want to go the way Rooseveld did in his wheelchair being pushed by his "nurse" at only 64.

You probably retired at 29 or is it 49 ??, but that's your prerogative !

P/S:- If you don't have a [figure it out yourself] sliderule then I've got a spare one for only 999.99 US (with proof of originality, dated Sep 8 1922 (my birthdate)...., a 6 incher for whizzkids who know how to use their noodles.... If you want the circular, no problem.... you can have that German surrogate for only one buck.... but you have to collect it in person.... I live in the Canary Islands.... 600 NM's off of Africa....

Donah////

In "modern" Spain, (a predominant Catholic nation) all women are named and registered by both parents' names. No exceptions. This way their birthlines are traceable over hundreds and hundreds of years making it easy for every male to classify his future birth "machine" suitable for bloodline and parenthood or not....

In the western world, in predominant non-Catholic (Christian) countries the woman's maiden name is lost the moment she gets married. Except in official registration, incl. passports.

This is probably a left-over from pre-medieval times (still in practice in Muslim and Hindu and other cultures) when a girl was sold or "traded" for property (cattle, ect.) and "bought and paid for" by the future "husband".... She became "property" and as such was to obey her "man".

[I have a beautiful Maroccan ceramic Cameo showing an grinning Arab selling his proud possession.... a very adorable curvacious girl.... probably his demi-mondaine. It's my second wive's....]

'Reason why a man (if he is "rich") can have many "wives".... He has bought them, they have to make his life "bearable" and he is not obligated to them.... The more girls his women richer he becomes.... They are PROPERTY. The first son is named after the father and in time inherites everything while all other sons are chased out the compound to fence for themselves. Becoming of age they are not allowed to "mingle" with their sisters as these are papa's property.... Incest is not negociable....

So, my Q is:- why is the (Christian) western world still hanging on to an out of style culture and not let women keep their own maiden identity so they will have some value to hang on to ....

Donah////

P/S:- I don't want to stirr up controversies but it bothers me.... Both my dead wives kept their own names on the marriage licences, as do my only 2 girls.... On our front doors both names are listed.... First her's and then his'.... in honor of Maria Magdalena.... Jesus's concubine and mother of his child(ren)....

'Any gum chum ??

The original PUMAs means Party Unity Means Action but Rebecca would take the alternate meaning. The real Hillary supporters take their lead from their champion and continue to act with dignity but not coil in fear. We know Hillary does what she has to in order to remain viable but we know that she has not changed her opinion of the selected candidate. We do not have to burn our bras or slink over to the other side in order to follow the lead of our superior candidate. The majority of us are level headed, intelligent persons confident of our centrist positions. We are not the leftist faction of the party of either candidate who have to be the loudest kids on the block and make fools of ourselves. We know Chris Matthews for what he is and do not play his game. But we also know Obama and Michelle for what they are and will not go quietly into the night. The effective are the slow and steady not the flash in the pan. Our support of our candidate may not be the specticle that the media is looking for but it is effective and we in the end will obtain our objective. We do follow our great candidate and walk softly but carry a big stick for we do care about her. Do not negate our actions.