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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
That's okay, their opponents are pretty viciously intolerant towards them. But of course since your probably a coward who won't come back, you'll never read this.
Wow, Adams, Jefferson and now Helms. All on the Fourth of July. Unfortunately, I don't think ol' Jesse is going to be seeing John and Thomas. But who am I to judge?
Why do you assume that it's gay folks who are "viciously intolerant" in this thread?
Why not black folks?
Hispanics?
Women?
And why would 3 or 4 or 5 angry gay folks in this thread have you assuming that (ALL) gay folks are "viciously intolerant."
If you're saying that agents of violence, like the KKK, are spurred by mouthpieces of violence, like Helms, I agree. In this regard, although no court will uphold it, I consider the mouthpieces of violence to have hands as bloody as klansmen.
Point and counterpoint. Thank you. This is an excellent beginning. But no, I am not gay -- or at least so far I still find myself perversely attracted to women. Racially I am quite a mess, really, but there is that "one drop" of Afrian blood, not to mention about a quart of American Indian. The rest is Scots-Irish, which of courses includes the Moorish "perfect polution" which shows up in the motto on the family coat of arms. But I digress...
When Jesse Helms denigrated black people, gay people, or any other sorts of people, he denigrated me, both as a human brother of those people and as an American who actually believes in the American ideals we routinely trample and which Mr. Helms apparently used as toilet paper. So if you still choose to tip your hat -- or wig -- I'm reciprocating in advance. Thank you for understanding my irritation at the predictable unseemliness, even though it is over the virtual grave of someone about whom I wish I'd never had to know.
First, I'd just like to say I have admired you by way of your posts since I first found you here. I contiue to do so. Thanks for the intelligent and well-reasoned response. This is precisely what I was hoping for.
As for specifics of your post this time, I am in complete agreement: those people who voted for Jesse Helms did, indeed, share his thoughts and feelings on Negroes, "sodomites" and pretty much anyone and anything else which didn't square wth his perverse view of the world. For this we are all the poorer.
My only difference -- and in this case, it may not even be a difference, but perhaps a caveat of some sort, is the use of the word "tolerance." This drops the bar for the bigoted and hateful. I usually have a problem with the term, since who wants to be just tolerated? "Tolerance" is usually the last barrier between us and physical violence toward those with whom we find difference. However, in the case of your wording, I think it is exactly right. We tolerated Jesse Helms, to some extent. However, I still don't feel we should lower ourselves to his bottomless standard by hollering "Whoopie!" over his death. Your response to it, here in this post of yours, is entirely appropriate and exactly what one might expect from the sort of company one would hope to find here.
Thanks for this and, again, I agree one-hundred per cent with your sentiments as expressed. Especially as expressed by you.
You took a brave stand. The mob was forming and clanging their shovels and were ready to disinter Helms and quarter the corpse and you started clanging Donne's bell.
Incivility does seem viral. When we base our behavior on those who debase us, we are the thing that hates us.
Howard Zinn once talked about the cruelty he saw in the "Good War," on both sides. It's not tit for tat. It's not even an eye for an eye. It's two extended families for an extended families. Today, it's two countries for two towers.
Larry Harmon, Who Popularized Bozo, Dies at 83
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/arts/television/04bozo.html?ref=obituaries
I'm frightened and confused...
...he represented the desires of the majority of his constituency. He gave a voice to millions who otherwise would have been left voiceless by those who found their worldview untenable. He was a man of great personal honor and integrity, and a consummate gentleman who was consistently among the most responsive members of Congress to the needs of the people who elected him. Whether one agreed with Senator No or not, you knew where he stood and who he stood for, which is a rarity in modern politics. He had a graciousness that is notably lacking from this particular conversation.
Helms was a cynical demagogue, supporter of military juntas, advocate of oppressive political regimes, and avid bigot who freely used his power to batter those not so well situated. Oh, and a slum landlord to boot.
Given all that, getting proverbial knickers in a twist over "speaking ill of the dead" is absurd. Dying doesn't make you a better human being, it just means you're dead. If you want people to say something nice about you after you die, don't be an asshole.
Guardian article may interest people in the link below,
A few quotes from this "consummate gentleman":
"I was with some Vietnamese recently, and some of them were smoking two cigarettes at the same time. That's the kind of customers we need!"
“You were the best qualified for that job, but they had to give it to a minority.”
"They should ask their parents if it would be all right for their son or daughter to marry a Negro." -- In response to Duke University students holding a vigil after Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated, 1968
"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction." -- After Mexicans protested his visit in 1986
"It's their deliberate, disgusting, revolting conduct that is responsible for the disease." -- Justifying his refusal to give financial support to families of AIDS victims.
"Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches." -- 1995 radio broadcast
"She's a damn lesbian. I am not going to put a lesbian in a position like that. If you want to call me a bigot, fine." -- Explaining why he was opposing the appointment of a woman for a cabinet post.
"The New York Times and Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves. Just about every person down there is a homosexual or lesbian." -- 1995
"The University of Negroes and Communists" -- Reference to the University of North Carolina devised by Mr. Helms when he worked for Willis Smith's 1950 U.S. Senate campaign
"No, I do not. And neither do the people in the armed forces. Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here. He'd better have a bodyguard." -- When asked in 1994 on CNN if he thought President Clinton was "up to the job" of serving as Commander-in-Chief
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
Salon headlines in your mailbox
