A very good idea. It's too bad that Clinton's spokesman Howard Wolfson has refused to admit that Obama actually clinched enough delegate support to ensure he becomes the presumptive nominee. It seems like the fanatics in the Clinton campaign of which he's one just refuse to accept reality. The time for Clinton bashing is over, but it's also time for the fanatics to face reality and get a life.

Fair enough.

As to number two, if you have doubts about his character and so forth, there's probably nothing he can do at this point to impress you.

I've seen numerous signals of his character, especially, his leadership style that gives me high hopes that he can achieve greatness, truly rising to the occasion.

There are no guarantees, of course, but my best judgment based on the facts and impressions I have leads me to believe there's a real chance he'll be great. And I started out as a skeptic.

As to number one, choosing Clinton, let's put aside the electoral arguments about whether that would do more to help or hurt.

My particular concern about such a move is frankly, I do not trust the Clintons to not undermine his candidacy and/or his presidency.

On a more ideological level, I'm not keen to keep the legacy of Bill Clinton alive; I find his third way despicable.

I'm sure you disagree, which is fine; the arguments have all been rendered ad nauseum and I'm not looking to engage in that particular argument here; by now, the sides have pretty much ossified and it seems to me there are two general camps: 1) the Reformist camp that coalesced around Nader, Bill Bradley and Howard Dean and 2) the Clinton camp, which (as far as I can discern) basically thinks the 1990s were all right.

Anyway, my basic question to you is, if you were Barack Obama, would you trust Hillary Clinton (and be extension, Bill Clinton) on your ticket?

Have they inspired any confidence that they can be good Number Two type people?

In my view, Hillary Clinton's talents would be wasted in the Oval Office or in the vice-presidency. I do think she would make a fine cabinet secretary or some such post where her job is more technocratic than political.

The quotation I cited says, "NATIONAL" not state...thus Obama has more national experience than Bill had.

Hillary is the original "strong woman".

• 1. Without experience in politics, she became First Lady of Arkansas because her husband won the election.
• 2. She became famous in America when defending her husband when he cheated her (with Gennifer Flowers).
• 3. She became the First Lady because her husband won the election (this is a deja-vu experience).
• 4. She increased their fame when her husband was accused of cheating her (with Monica Lewinsky).
• 5. He took advantage of the fame achieved because of her husband's being President to win the NY election and to present herself as a candidate in the Democratic primary elections.
• 6. He was so awkward of losing an election which she started as a favourite and, instead of accepting responsibility, she blamed sexism (but without men her political career wouldn't have even started).
• 7. Now that she has lost the election, she wants Obama to make her the vice-candidate. So again, she wants to rely on a man, while, at the same time, claiming sexism.

Wow! Such a strong woman! She is a loser who can only succeed by taking advantage of winner men and, at the same time, she presents herself as a victim of sexism. What a double standard and hypocrisy! She is the quintessential feminist!

(By the way, I am ASTONISHED that she couldn't win even with the enthusiastic support of Salon. I can't remember all the articles supporting her and all the pictures with a smiling Hillary. American people is blind).

(Yes, yes, I know. I am gay, dumbass, can't get laid, insecure, with short dick, a womyn hater, pathetic loser. So what? The truth is the truth, whoever tells it)

we won. I'm not letting these rush limbaugh dittheads rain on my/our parade.

WE WON. :)

Let's not let the gop,clinton included, put a damper on that. scared sad old people scared of growth, the future and change. If you don't change you are already dead. to live is to grow. America grew last night. Whther propgoandists and ostriches admit it or not, or hate it even.

thanks sagcat. :)

I'm sorry to put a damper on it by going after these people. they are irrelevant now. The time has come to become what we have been becoming.

Indigo said, "I have told you idiots I was asian all along, like that matters!"

OMG we have Michelle Malkin trolling around here!

yeah keep telling me I'm a white man...I am Asian and female, you sexist idiot!!

Instead of debunking our arguments Obamabots keep resorting to ad hominem. Why don't you tell that black dude he's a KKK boy?

Moron is what moron says and thinks....

-- indigo218

First, yeah, you're right. I am sexist to think that only white KKK males would be as idiotically and blatantly narrow-minded as you are. My apologies for assuming that women of color are more tolerant.

Second, what argument did you make, that if he were Asian he would've lost? Since he isn't Asian -- and no Asian has run for president -- how the fuck can you possibly know if that were true or not? It's just speculation, and you were merely projecting your hatred of blacks onto Obama vis-a-vis an Asian candidate. My point was that if Obama were white, he would've won in a walk months ago. Care to debate that?

Third, you should certainly know about the qualifications of a moron, so I guess I'll bow to your judgment on that issue.

Good luck with your vote for McCain. Hope that works out for you.

Re: "It's too bad that Clinton's spokesman Howard Wolfson has refused to admit that Obama actually clinched enough delegate..."

I don't think it matters. Obama is the nominee whether they admit it or not. Hillary, even if she goes to the convention, can't get enough superdelegates to win, so what's the point?! My only guess is that she wants the VP spot, which would be fine with me, but probably not with the Democratic Party establishment. Today Jimmy Carter said that he wants Sam Nunn on the ticket. I think an Obama/Hillary ticket is a winner, which is why the media hate the idea of it so much. Whatever happens I wish that both sides would resolve it quickly so that we can move on.