The bottom line is that, love her or hate her, she is truly the wild card in this election. Without her we're left with two dullards who are about as standard issue Dem/Rep as you can get. And it looks like we're not even going to have the Chicago "Jerry Springer Church" for entertainment anymore. Viva Hillary indeed!

The Clinton camp needs to get a clue. It is time to unite our party and get over themselves. Bill embarrassed our party one time too many.

Hey Back,

I'm not sure where you're coming from with your "demand for a recount", but at least you should check your facts about how votes are held.

Oregon does not vote by caucus. Oregon holds a primary. Oregon is the ONLY state currently using all paper ballots, with signatures checked carefully, and with any questionable ballots being kicked out of the automated system for a well-vetted team of volunteers to count manually. It is a vote by mail system, where ballots go out to registered voters (and only those registered in a particular party get to vote for that party's candidates) and they have two weeks to sit with them, read the voter's pamphlet, attend the multiple rallies of both candidates (at least this time around, both Clinton and Obama were seen many times all around the state--with MUCH larger crowds for Obama, by the way), then go home and mark their ballot in complete privacy. This has increased voter turnout remarkably--especially among the elderly, disabled, or working class who are often targets of the massive vote manipulation efforts of Republicans in other states, and who have difficulty getting to a polling place and waiting in line on a single day.

It has NOT increased "underage" voting--that's a hell of an accusation, by the way!

Maybe what you are thinking of as "underage" in Oregon is the MASSIVE turnout of 18-20 something college students who are absolutely ready for Obama to blast past the "old-school" war generations and move us into a bit more cooperative approach to actually getting something done! Oh, and the Oregon Bus Project's incredible job of energizing these voters has also helped make the face of Oregon politics definitely "younger" than any state in the nation has seen in decades.

But, yes, they ARE all of voting age--and dying in wars age, too, which may also have them a bit more interested in Obama.

And why not ? The Republicans settled their race in February. They have been coached by Rush Limbaugh to vote for Hillary. They have had their sympathy stirred for Hillary in OP-ED's by Bill Kristol. Softball interviews of Hillary on Fox News by the likes of Bill O'Reilly send a signal to the faithful that she is their candidate in Spring, 2008.

Yet we know that these people hate the Clintons. So why were they so nice to Hillary ? Yes, the Republicans have picked McCain and decided that they could also pick his opponent in November.

So Katex's vote margins after McCain locked up the Republican nomination are suspect.

Barack Obama is the man they fear to face in November.

.. if only Obama had changed his sex in the beginning of the campaign. With the new transexual Ms. Obama, there would have not been any reason to vote Clinton and all the Salon crowd would have supported Obama wholeheartedly while attacking Clinton as "too conservative" and "supporting the war in Iraq". Hehehe.

Now seriously, Hillary have some powerful assets that Obama lacks: the right gonads. So, even with her awful campaign, her lies and her being divisive, she has been able to stand till the end, while tearing down all the chances for the Democrats in the next elections.

The way it goes, after all the fight between both candidates, the only winner in the general election will surely be McCain. It's a pity because USA needs a change after the presidency of George Bush.

Let's hope after the defeat of Democrats in the next election, Ms. Clinton doesn't have the idea of presenting herself again. Let the Democrat candidate for 2012 be a woman, but a competent and ethical one, a woman who can win, and not Hillary Clinton.

This used to be one of my favorite sections of all. There actually was discourse and most people seemed fairly reasonable and intelligent. Salon needs full-time moderators to block and delete people and needs a Terms of Use section with posting rules. This free for all does not promote anything but troll wars. I used to post here quite a bit, especially in the days before you had to create an actual account, and I read Salon every day. I don't remember things being this ugly and annoying ever before. I am actually looking for a new blogsphere home.

Which alternative reality is Mike talking about?

The one where there are bizarre combinations of caucus vs popular votes in states to determine delegate counts?

The one where disenfranchising the voters of two potential make or break states in the general is a good idea.

The alternate reality where according to RCP the candidate (Clinton) leading by 36 electoral college votes and according to www.electoral-vote.com the candidate (Clinton) forecast to win by a landslide over the other candidate barely sqweeking by is not the nominee?

Is the "real" reality, the one where the candidate most likely to lose is automatically the pre-emptive nominee?

Is the real reality the one where resigning from a controversial church where a candidate has been a member for 20 years is a boost to a candidancy?

Mike, helps us out, there are so many confusing realities out there.

How could Hillary be leading by 36 electoral votes. There is NO electoral votes count in the primaries and we have not yet had a general election. MI & Fl wre not realelctions.

Obama is only 42 delegates away from the nomination now. Hillary is almost 200 away.

I think she will get out Tuesday before the Bill bimbo eruptions start. The recent Vanity Fair article hinted of them, and you can bet the republicans have been digging.