It amazes me that I hear so many Hillary supporters (20% is the figure that I've seen quoted) claim they'll vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. A lot of that is surely racist voters, and people who would end up voting for McCain over Hillary,but a lot of it is sour grapes.

Latest figure I've seen is 28%.

Isn't it at all possible that Hillary supporters would vote for McCain not because of racism or sour grapes but because they actually believe that Hillary would be a better president than McCain but McCain would be better than Obama? I'm not saying you need to agree with them, but to omit that possibility is to misread a significant portion of the electorate.

Here would be the result:

McCain wins: America is plunged into the second great depression. During this period unemployment tops 30 percent, the war in Iraq is a humiliating defeat for America, and the home situation is such that this heralds the end of America's supremacy.

Indeed, as super-stagflation rocks the nation, McCain is forced to resign while the Democrats try to field an opposition. Because of the rancor of these elections, Hillary is booed out of a nomination, and out of the Democratic party.

The future will not be characterised by a boot being repeatedly applied to your face, it will be characterised by an led lined American branded boot, manufactured by child labour in China, being repeatedly applied to your backside as every single candidate with even the slightest inkling of a plan for getting America out of the shit will be castigated for being too left and too university educated.

By about 2020, America as a country will collapse completely. I shit thee not, this election, if it goes to Hillary America will survive, if it goes to Obama America will survive, if it goes to McCain America is doomed.

I wonder how many laid-off workers, foreclosed homeowners, and "downscale" women (this makes us feel so good, by the way) were in debate club in HS. His appearances are like the state finals.

Barack's bowling approach is terrible! He needs to get lower, bending his knees as he prepares to release the ball. That way, he'll have a greater chance to avoid the gutter (ball).

"BUT - there is a value to it. The whole thing is a big pressure cooker, designed to bring out the real person. No one can "fake it" for the entire span (W is an exception, but he had practice as a spoiled rich kid being transplanted to Texas). The real person usually comes out - qualities and flaws."

Au contraire, mon ami! He faked nothing.

Remember when he mocked that woman whose death sentence he refused to commute?

Tucker, was her name?

It would be nice if we could attribute America's voting for him to some kind of deception.

No, I'm afraid America saw just who he was and still voted for him.

And did so again in 2004.

"That's America."

Lets see: People do first aid all the time. Camp coordinators are great at first aid.

So why are emergency wards full of doctors?

The same thing with lawyers. You can understand the constitution to a point, but training would give you an edge where being untrained would not.

The president's primary job is as a legal figure. He vetoes legislation and signs legal documents for the entire country.

Of course if you are a retard, you might take this as being all about sneering at the working class, but that is because you are a anti-intellectual retard who is likely to take a science fiction author's novel before the IPCC on climate change.

I agree that there are people who just think McCain would be better, I understand that. But here is my issue with this stat - it is way too high given the lack of 'real' differences between Obama and Clinton.

It is not reasonable to assume that 28% see the differnces of Republican and Democratic policy as no big deal. Not when McCain is essentially Bush III. And people hate Bush and his policies. So something else is influenceing this stat to a great degree.

I see McCain as the equivalent to whatever Roman Emperor first started losing big, money-making provinces. The writing is on the wall, the Empire is over.

"The president's primary job is as a legal figure. He vetoes legislation and signs legal documents for the entire country."

That's an interesting hypothesis, one that I've not heard before.

It doesn't ring true to me off the bat, but you've given me something to chew on, so thank you for that.

before you can be a working class anything you first have to work at something.

Are any of the presidential candidates working class? No.

There was at least one in the starting field that did grow up working class and had actual issues paying for college (Edwards) but most people didn't believe that he cared about the working class because he became a trial attorney, made lots of money and, oh, yeah, had good hair and a nice smile. Therefore, he had to be a phoney. But, the people who grew up in more comfortable circumstances, they might actually care. Look, all of them are politicians. Perhaps we should just drop the pretence. People like who they like and they will believe what they want to believe. And disparage the candidate they are not supporting.

Also, the comment about going to Wellesley and Yale and being working class, well, yes, Hillary wasn't and isn't working class. But, I went to Wellesley. I met lots of different people there. I'm sorry to break it to you, but I actually did run into people who were - shock, horror, - working class - at Wellesley. Certainly, people who are not middle class or wealthy are not as well-represented as they should be, because it's damned expensive. But, to decide that the working class just doesn't ever go there...ridiculous.

The bus tour that Obama is on is no different than what other candidates do. So far, he seems to be doing OK. Certainly, there's no major gaffe on the level of the GHW Bush going into the grocery store and not knowing that scanners existed. What people ask is that the candidates attempt to see what their lives are like and that they listen to them talk about their problems. They don't ask that the candidates actually become one of them - although there is the dangerous idea that we should want to have a beer with our president. I like to think the problem has been that they felt that the last two Democratic candidates were SO unapproachable that they didn't even feel that Gore or Kerry could attempt to understand, because they could not unbend, at all. Gore can, now, but he's not running for anything.