ljwalker53: "You are absolutely shameless. And you know perfectly well that we (you and I) have had these discussions before, Hutman, in which I pointed out specifics: derogatory names and comments, innuendo, denial, dismissal, and outright lies --- used over and over and over again against Sen. Hillary Clinton."

What's with the "shame" garbage? Hillary Clinton is wheezing "for shame!" and "shame on you!" and I've seen her supporters use the "Shame, shame, shame!" charge repeatedly in this thread. It's weird...

Anyway, yes, we did have that discussion about derogatory names etc. You listed a bunch of derogatory names that you must have pulled off some other message board, because I hadn't seen any Obama supporters use any of them, other than perhaps "Hillbots" or something. You never did explain where you got your list from -- it was obvious that you had it ready at and to copy and paste, and didn't just type it from memory.

In that same discussion, I went through 4 pages of posts and described, in detail, the insult levels of messages from Obama supporters and Clinton supporters. Of about 50 different Obama posts, maybe 2 were offensive. Yet of about 6 different Clinton posts, about 3 or 4 were full-on offensive. I provided full-on evidence that disproved your premise. I don't seem to recall you responding to me at that point.

And let's not forget, the problem arose because you kept repeating that the Obama supporters were the ones who had engaged in ugly behavior, while not acknowledging any ugly behavior from the Clinton camp. I found this statement absurd because you were there when Cythera45 was repeating one message after another saying things like "Obama is an empty suit" and "I hope McCain smashes Obama's face." Clinton supporters were also saying all sorts of other rude and substance-less statements, using the term "Obamabots," or "Obami," and you were in those threads so you would have observed all that. I found it very odd that you would then make a statement, without any irony, that the Obama supoprters were the primary ones being ugly.

ljwalker53: "If you want or need another example, look on the same page as your "comment" to me and AKA Smith. Yet another poster (manos99) refers to Sen. Clinton as a "bitch"."

I don't know anything about that person, and haven't seen him/her before. If you look through all the messages in this thread, however, I think you'll find that somebody saying "bitch" is the exception and not the rule. I also fail to see how the use of the term "bitch" translates into killing somebody on the Titanic, etc.

ljwalker53: "That you don't grasp or acknowledge this as sexism -- at its mildest and misogyny at its worst -- tells me that you know nothing about feminism; or, what you do know is about enough to fit inside a sperm cell."

What's with the ad-hominem, ljwalker? See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You're calling people sexist, I am questioning that, and you aggravate the situation by being insulting.

I think "bitch" is mildly sexist, and that's about it. I have heard women use the term "bitch," but then again, people also use the term "dick" to refer to men. Is "dick" sexist? I would be all for a calm discussion of whether certain terms are sexist or not. If you're going to tell me I'm an idiot for wanting to have that discussion, however, I'll happily tell you to shove it.

As for the statement that I "know nothing about feminism," what do you mean? What's not to know? Women certainly have been discriminated against throughout history, and that discrimination continues throughout our society and many others. I am all for equality of the sexes. I am all for judging each individual on that person's merits. Go read through all my messages and show me one where I am blatantly sexist in anything I've written (AKA Smith's bogus charge because of my Michelle Obama joke certainly doesn't count).

ljwalker53: "How old are you, anyway? 16?"

Ha ha, look at you go! Ad-hominem....dive right in!

ljwalker53: "That's how you act on these boards -- like a 16-year old teenager who lacks respect for anybody and anything other than your ideas and perceptions of reality and truth."

Well, I will tell you one thing. I definitely have lost any respect for you.

ljwalker53: "And the minute, THE MINUTE somebody confronts you with it, you throw a temper tantrum, calling people names and telling them to F*** Off, among other things."

Who's throwing a temper tantrum here? Yes, I did say "fuck you" to AKA Smith, because she deserved it for calling me a sexist out of the blue. We weren't even discussing anything related to sexism -- we were arguing about the definition of plagiarism, etc. -- and all of the sudden, poof, I'm a sexist. So I said, "hey, fuck you." What do you think? Temper tantrum, or appropriate? I vote for appropriate! Anyway, you're in no position to be blasting me for a temper tantrum right about now...

ljwalker53: "You can't even let a plagiarism issue go when somebody has explained it to you over and over and over again. That isn't even ignorance; it's sheer stupidity."

It's funny, you weren't even around during that argument....or were you?

Nobody "explained it over and over." The explanation kept morphing and changing to fit AKA Smith's argument. One minute she claimed plagiarism had to be "word for word," the next minute she refered everybody to a Wikipedia definition that directly contradicted this requirement. Etc. Later, AKA Smith admitted that she didn't care so much about whether her argument was consistent as she did about not wanting to back down -- basically a "saving face is more important than having principles" statement. Funny, isn't that exactly Hillary Clinton's own approach to her Iraq war vote?

Anyway, you weren't here for any of that argument, so what's your beef? I do notice that you and AKA Smith are both English teachers who have discussed their English grading methods at length. I find that interesting...

ljwalker53: "What exactly are you so worried about in your candidate -- Barack Obama -- that you can't seem to hold a rational conversation about him, without turning it into a name-calling contest?"

Who's engaging in more name-calling and ad-hominem here? I am not particularly worried about Obama. I do find the petty attacks on him offensive in general. I would find similar attacks on other candidates offensive as well. I thought the "$400 haircut" crap against Edwards was lame. I am no fan of any sort of sexist attack on Hillary Clinton, and have defended her in the past. So it's not about worry. However, I do find it ugly that Hillary Clinton has decided to go so negative on Obama in hopes of pulling out of her slump. She's throwing everything she can at him instead of simply playing up her strengths, even if the stuff she throws at him has little to no merit. If anything, that deserves to be addressed.

ljwalker53: "What exactly do you fear so much about the possibility of a Hillary Clinton Presidency that you go out of your way to vilify and crucify her."

Crucify? Wow, such harsh words. I don't recall pounding any nails into the woman's hands, or making any statements laden with violence. I do recall people discussing Obama in a violent fashion, however, saying "I hope he gets punched in his glass jaw," or "I hope McCain smashes in his face." I have seen MUCH more such animosity on the anti-Obama side. So I think perhaps much of the fear lays in that realm.

ljwalker53: "THAT IS WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SEXISM!"

At this point I am not sure you even know what sexism is, then. You just described people opposing Hillary Clinton's candidacy. Then you jump to a charge of sexism. Isn't it possible that people would oppose Clinton's candidacy for reasons other than her gender? Or simply because they like her opponent better? The fact that you would deny this is strange.

ljwalker53: "How long will it take before you fit this into the doughnut hole that seems to be your brain?"

More ad-hominem. Wait -- I thought you said the Obama supporters were the insulting ones? Anyway, here's my comeback, courtesy Kurt Vonnegut: "If your brain were dynamite there wouldn't be enough to blow your hat off." (I probably mis-stated that, but you get the idea. It's at least a little funnier than a donut-hole.)

ljwalker53: "I'd love to be proved wrong about you, Hutman. But so far nothing I have seen in your commentary has given me hope that it will happen. And therein lies the problem."

Awwwww. I did so wish for you to like me.