ljwalker53: "You are absolutely shameless. And you know perfectly well that we (you and I) have had these discussions before, Hutman, in which I pointed out specifics: derogatory names and comments, innuendo, denial, dismissal, and outright lies --- used over and over and over again against Sen. Hillary Clinton."

What's with the "shame" garbage? Hillary Clinton is wheezing "for shame!" and "shame on you!" and I've seen her supporters use the "Shame, shame, shame!" charge repeatedly in this thread. It's weird...

Anyway, yes, we did have that discussion about derogatory names etc. You listed a bunch of derogatory names that you must have pulled off some other message board, because I hadn't seen any Obama supporters use any of them, other than perhaps "Hillbots" or something. You never did explain where you got your list from -- it was obvious that you had it ready at and to copy and paste, and didn't just type it from memory.

In that same discussion, I went through 4 pages of posts and described, in detail, the insult levels of messages from Obama supporters and Clinton supporters. Of about 50 different Obama posts, maybe 2 were offensive. Yet of about 6 different Clinton posts, about 3 or 4 were full-on offensive. I provided full-on evidence that disproved your premise. I don't seem to recall you responding to me at that point.

And let's not forget, the problem arose because you kept repeating that the Obama supporters were the ones who had engaged in ugly behavior, while not acknowledging any ugly behavior from the Clinton camp. I found this statement absurd because you were there when Cythera45 was repeating one message after another saying things like "Obama is an empty suit" and "I hope McCain smashes Obama's face." Clinton supporters were also saying all sorts of other rude and substance-less statements, using the term "Obamabots," or "Obami," and you were in those threads so you would have observed all that. I found it very odd that you would then make a statement, without any irony, that the Obama supoprters were the primary ones being ugly.

ljwalker53: "If you want or need another example, look on the same page as your "comment" to me and AKA Smith. Yet another poster (manos99) refers to Sen. Clinton as a "bitch"."

I don't know anything about that person, and haven't seen him/her before. If you look through all the messages in this thread, however, I think you'll find that somebody saying "bitch" is the exception and not the rule. I also fail to see how the use of the term "bitch" translates into killing somebody on the Titanic, etc.

ljwalker53: "That you don't grasp or acknowledge this as sexism -- at its mildest and misogyny at its worst -- tells me that you know nothing about feminism; or, what you do know is about enough to fit inside a sperm cell."

What's with the ad-hominem, ljwalker? See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You're calling people sexist, I am questioning that, and you aggravate the situation by being insulting.

I think "bitch" is mildly sexist, and that's about it. I have heard women use the term "bitch," but then again, people also use the term "dick" to refer to men. Is "dick" sexist? I would be all for a calm discussion of whether certain terms are sexist or not. If you're going to tell me I'm an idiot for wanting to have that discussion, however, I'll happily tell you to shove it.

As for the statement that I "know nothing about feminism," what do you mean? What's not to know? Women certainly have been discriminated against throughout history, and that discrimination continues throughout our society and many others. I am all for equality of the sexes. I am all for judging each individual on that person's merits. Go read through all my messages and show me one where I am blatantly sexist in anything I've written (AKA Smith's bogus charge because of my Michelle Obama joke certainly doesn't count).

ljwalker53: "How old are you, anyway? 16?"

Ha ha, look at you go! Ad-hominem....dive right in!

ljwalker53: "That's how you act on these boards -- like a 16-year old teenager who lacks respect for anybody and anything other than your ideas and perceptions of reality and truth."

Well, I will tell you one thing. I definitely have lost any respect for you.

ljwalker53: "And the minute, THE MINUTE somebody confronts you with it, you throw a temper tantrum, calling people names and telling them to F*** Off, among other things."

Who's throwing a temper tantrum here? Yes, I did say "fuck you" to AKA Smith, because she deserved it for calling me a sexist out of the blue. We weren't even discussing anything related to sexism -- we were arguing about the definition of plagiarism, etc. -- and all of the sudden, poof, I'm a sexist. So I said, "hey, fuck you." What do you think? Temper tantrum, or appropriate? I vote for appropriate! Anyway, you're in no position to be blasting me for a temper tantrum right about now...

Clinton was similarly vague about how she would handle special interrogation methods used by the CIA. She said that while she does not condone torture, so much has been kept secret that she would not know unless elected what other extreme measures interrogators are using, and therefore could not say whether she would change or continue existing policies.

- Washington Post online, 2-23-2008

Instead of allowing this President - or any President - to decide what does and does not constitute torture, we could have left the definition up to our own laws and to the Geneva Conventions, as we would have if we passed the bill that the Armed Services committee originally offered.

- Barack Obama, Statement on the Military Commission Legislation, 9-28-2008

but i wouldn't vote for her.

I would love to be proven wrong about my cynicism about politicians and my pessimism about the persistence of racism and sexism. I actually started out as an Edwards supporter, in part because I like his progressive plans with an emphasis on solving problems of poverty and the squeezed middle class, but also, I don't trust this country on matters of race and sex discrimination.

Maybe it is because I live in a small town in Texas.