You reap what you sow.

You go gurrrl!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOVHf9HPEJM

We all know how it works: you count her out and prepare to dance on her grave, and she comes back stronger than ever. Thank you for going along with the formula.

But seriously - she's not done. They're in a dead heat, if you want to be generous to Obama.

But no, you've got to supply your own narrative, based on one event for affluent Democrats.

You know, there were a lot of affluent Dems at my caucus too. They were for Obama, too.

The people who can be relied upon to actally get out and vote Democratic, though - you know, the base? The women, Latinos, blue collar workers? the ones we're supposed to care about? - they couldn't make it. Had to stay home, or, you know, work.

should not be a party of minorities alone. I think it needs leaders that would be consensus builders and uniters. Voting along racial lines, as this election seems to be morphing into, would set us back. As a East Indian who lives both here and in india, Mahantma Gandhi's Congress party(on what it has become today) would offer a lesson to the Democrats on what not to do!

AlecsMom: "HRC's problems are fairly easy to define at this time and they're not going away, now or in the general election. First, many Dems, like myself, voted for Bill twice and felt burned by the lack of progress on what we see as democratic platform issues."

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Exactly. What did Bill Clinton ever do FOR the Democratic Party? He used it to get elected, but afterwards he threw the base under the bus. He supported and advocated WTO, NAFTA, GATT, the redefinition of poverty as being the fault of the poor, Don't Ask-Don't Tell and the first federal Defense of Marriage Act. He pandered to the right at every turn. Just like Hillary has done. I'm convinced that their failed foray into universal healthcare was intended to fail. They could be "for" universal healthcare while in reality being opposed to it. They did with healthcare what the Democratic Congress is doing with the Iraq War. (Read Tiabbi's piece in Rolling Stone) Pretending to be opposed to it while supporting it and the Bush/Cheney regime in every way that matters at every available opportunity.

ncawley wrote:

"@AlecsMom: How Dare you.....

How dare you state that the administration of President Bill Clinton did not do anything for our country."

I said no such thing. There's a difference between criticism and insults. Please read more carefully and stop trying to make issues where there are none.

As someone who has supported the Clintons in the past, I see no reason why I can't call them out for their (mostly his really) atrocious conduct in the Whitehouse. Bill has lived it down and has behaved in a dignified way since leaving office, but I will never forget (and I don't believe most Americans will either) the nastiness and bitterness of those years. We can do better. "Yes, we can."

I get what you're saying. But the truth is, people *aren't* just voting along racial lines. Obama would be nowhere if they were.

Instead he has won big in Iowa, Nebraska, and Kansas...states that are pretty darn white!

It is beyond me how the formerly beloved Clintons can be vilified by

Democrats with RW talking points. Somebody new and "inspiring" comes along

and suddenly people hate Bill and Hillary? It's OK to call Chelsea a

whore? Everything he did in office was wrong? She did nothing but

serve tea? Eight years of peace and prosperity was nothing? They hurt

the Democratic party? WHA...???

I think it's fair to ask what Obama is proposing to change and what policies he supports. If you are genuinely interested in finding out more about his substantive (and I think, thoughtful) positions on issues there are a number of places to find more information: his website barackobama(dot)com to start with; the nytimes website has a very simple chart explaining how candidates have positioned themselves on the issues (you do have to register to see it); and issues2000(dot)org is a visually difficult website to navigate but also has a lot of useful information about all of the candidates positions on the major issues.

I suspect that what you will discover is that Obama and Hillary agree on a majority of issues. They do disagree somewhat on health care. Hillary's supporters claim that Obama's plan for health care reform could leave 8.5 million people uninsured. Obama's supporters claim that Hillary's plan could force people to buy premiums they can not afford. They also disagree somewhat on the war/homeland security/military. Obama opposed the war from the beginning, Hillary voted for it. She has also said repeatedly that she will not recant her war vote; that it was Bush's handling of the war that was the problem, not going to war itself. Both Obama and Hillary voted against extending the Patriot Act wiretap provision in 2005, but voted for extending the Patriot Act in 2006. Both have consistently voted to restore habeus corpus. However only Obama wants to ban torture and called for reform in the VA. Hillary stated that she believed that national security is more important than human rights. Obama also wants to repeal "don't ask, don't tell" immediately. Hillary would like to keep it in place, at a minimum, until 2009.

Part of the reason why the bickering in these forums seems so over-the-top and vituperative is that in fact the stakes (as far as the issues go) are so small. Either of the two candidates has pledged to take the country in a more progressive direction. So it stands to reason then that a lot of voters, myself included are making their decisions based on other factors; i.e.: who seems more likely to be elected? who is more inspiring? who seems to be more likely to be able to work with Republicans and Democrats? who will be able to do more to restore our standing in the international community?

For me the answer was Obama, and that's why I'm planning on voting for him on Tuesday and then again (I hope) in November. Not because I'm black, not because I'm a traitor to feminism, not because I went to graduate school or because I have been brain-washed, and not because I hate Hillary. After looking at all of the facts and listening to both of their speeches and watching the debates, I decided to support Obama.

I'm not sure if that helps at all, but there you go.