Lincoln was a serial failure for most of his pre-white house years. he was nominated in a brokered convention. Jefferson was brilliant, but had virtually no government experience. robert Kennedy was a first term senator from NY. Now, tell me how Obama's credentials don't stack up. I am NOT saying Obama is their equal in any way, at least not yet. But don't hand me that inexperienced crap. Billary was first lady for eight years, and on the wall mart board for another six (or was it eight). So theres' 14 or 15 of her alleged 35 years of experience. She is an experienced victim, though. Boo freakin hoo.

How sexist is that?

You think that because a majority of women support HRC it is because she is a woman. WOW! You really don't seem to have a clue about what women think, how they vote, who they vote for or why. I don't know why I'm even responding to you. Really, what you know about women and voting would fit in a sperm cell.

"Yes, we can..." what? ...piss standing up?

"hope..." for what? Vanilla icecream?

"determination to move this country in a dramatic way..." where? Left? Right? Center? Closer to Rapture?

If only Obama/Obamamotes explain the general public where exactly they want us to follow him, who knows!...we may actually vote for him.

Obama has about the same experience as Lincoln, Jefferson, and Robert Kennedy if he'd not been murdered.

That was very...sweet and loyal, if inaccurate.

Voting "Absent"

After scolding Obama in the South Carolina debate for strategically voting "Present" in the Illinois Senate, Hillary fails to show up for the FISA vote, as Bush wins immunity for corporations to do his spying.

I just have one question: Is she going to run the country as poorly as she's run her campaign?

I have just one question: Are you willing to take a look at the votes Sen. Obama has missed? He has the fourth highest MISSED VOTES record of any U.S. Senator, ahead of Sens Joe Biden, John McCain and Tim Johnson. So, let's look at the votes he has missed.

Obama "missed" the vote on Implementing the 911 Commission Report recommendations

Obama "missed" the vote of "No Confidence" vote on AG Alberto Gonzales

Obama "missed" the vote to increase funds for grants to low-income college students.

Now, let's talk his rhetoric vs. his votes on the war:

Obama voted to reauthorize Patriot Act (2006)

Obama voted to continue funding the Iraq War despite his "principled" views against the war "from the beginning."

Obama voted AGAINST two amendments to establish a timeline for withdrawing U.S. troops and to redeploy troops

How about environment and energy issues?

Obama voted for a "clean energy bill" that gave $14.5 billion in tax cuts to the oil and gas industry. The measure was HEAVILY LOBBIED-FOR BY THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.

How about consumers?

Obama voted in favor of a bill to limit class action lawsuits against corporations, like Enron. This bill was supported by business and the White House and was HEAVILY LOBBIED-FOR by business interests.

Be careful of the "facts". They have a way of coming back to bite.

Plug in your reading light instead of your pet vibrator. Obama had written quite eloquent books that describe his experience and his world view. He's five years older than JFK was when he was elected. And first lady/wall mart board member is supposed to trump that? What elitist crap that anyone moved by Obama is a glazed-eyed dupe. Look in the mirror before you chuck stones because Queen Billary isn't getting what she perceives as her due. She is getting it; she just doesn't recognize it. Neither do you. Maybe the 0 for 3 billary will get tonight might clear up the picture for you. I doubt it. Thanks for the lecture, though, oh entitled one. We're waiting raptly for your next plop of wisdom. love, heywood

My God!Did we work/sweat/die for over 232 years to hand or destiny to an overweight pants suit wearing half woman so she can be The decision making person with HER finger on THE button if it came down to that?????????????

RE: Hillary Clinton-What kind fo woman trying to become the first woman President resorts to portraying herself as a victim every time she gets in trouble-Now you tell me???This is how she one her Y Senateseat-Monica etc etc..............

After scolding Obama in the South Carolina debate for strategically voting "Present" in the Illinois Senate, Hillary fails to show up for the FISA vote, as Bush wins immunity for corporations to do his spying.

I just have one question: Is she going to run the country as poorly as she's run her campaign?

You had me for almost nine paragraphs, and I do admire your penchant for reason and ability to use critical thinking. No, that doesn't mean most of the women here do not, only that most of the posters here do not. They're too busy throwing bombs at each other. Kinda like a certain part of the middle east. Eye for an eye and all that.

But then, near the end of your very refreshing post (I am an Obama supporter, so we may as well get that out of the way now so you can quit reading if you want) came the Turd in the Punchbowl: We really need to elect a woman instead of a man.

The argument comes up almost automatically from someone -- always a male -- that there's some baggage involving the male half of the Clinton team. This is a not entirely specious argument (and I have always been a great admirer and ardent supporter of Bill Clinton, having also put my money where my mouth was). Certainly many of the allusions are sexual and, in my personal opinion, in bad taste as well. But they are not necessarily grounds for calling mysogyny every single time someone mentions Bill or even just criticizes Hillary or, for that matter, fails to fall into lock-step with those who feel Ms. Clinton would be the better choice. Sometimes it is just another line of reasoning -- although I'd prefer penii and certain complimentary items be left out of the argument.

And yet...I can to a certain extent feel the frustration of the people who use genital comparisons, since that difference is a major defining element of a man or a woman, choose whichever turns you on.

So I have to ask you this: While Michele Obama has no spectacular political baggage as of yet, even so could it be, in this "It has to be a woman" reasoning which we find tied to the bumper of your (in particular) otherwise well-reasoned and clearly thought-out position, that there is on your end of the argument an element of misandry? Could that play even a small part in many feminism-influenced arguments for voting for Ms. Clinton instead of Obama?

Do not misunderstand: I feel first a woman President would be every bit as historically significant as an ethnic minority male. Further, I have absolutely no problem with a woman being President, assuming I feel she is the better qualified candidate. Since I don't feel that way this time, and since it is the first time, I suppose opposition to that possibility could be every bit as frustrating to women (and feminists in general) as we of the Obama persuasion being told we need to wait. The image of the cover of Dr. M.L. King's book "Why We Can't Wait" immediately springs to my very visual mind. I'm sure feminists feel the same argument can be made, and I honor that. I just happen to feel this woman does not measure up to this man re: which would make the better Presidential candidate. Does that mean I am a de facto misogynist? I would passionately argue against that proposition.

Please give it some thought before you answer -- if you even choose to answer. You seem an intelligent person and I like that and lend a lot more weight to it than to any person's political views. Lord knows there are intelligent people who do not arrive at like conclusions every time. One hopes there is still room to disagree without each party calling the other an idiot or worse (often much worse, as we've seen here of late).

RR22, can you shed any light on the possibility of misandry playing even a tiny role in the discourse here, as opposed to the acknowleged mysogyny of many, though by no means all or even the majority of sometimes frustrated men of perhaps limited vocabulary?

Hey, I'm serious! Please?