You are quite right regarding starting from a different view point. We all have some ideal of who we want to elect as the next nominee. However, I'm just preparing myself for several different outcomes. And, crossing party lines is not out of the question for me.

PEACE

@anonymous:

I'm just going to take that and run, thank you very much. It's as high a compliment as anyone can get from this forum. :)

It also seems that, since Billary pledged to the 4 sanctioned early states that she agreed Fla and Mich wouldn't count, they would be well within their rights to take and/or reassign their Clinton delegates now that she has reneged (breached) on that pledge (contract)

No one ever made that pledge. The 4-state pledge was about campaigning, not about delegates. The Democratic candidates pledged they wouldn't campaign in any state that held its primary or caucus prior to February 5th, except for Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada & South Carolina.

I still think what Hilary is doing is a low blow and I can't believe her supporters are validating her actions.

I meant what I said. I used to be a Hilary Clinton supporter, a crazy Clinton supporter (very "Go Hilary!") who gave my support without question (big mistake). But my mind was changed after realizing, really, her senate voting record and witnessing her actions in this campaign.

I agree with much of what you say much of the time, but I don't agree with your generalizations here. It's time we held ourselves up to the same standards to which we hold our political leaders.

As a woman, I would like Hillary to respond very forthrightly to her attackers.

But she didn't of course. She was circumspect. Not that she had a choice in the matter. Saying directly, "He snubbed me, Chris, and it hurt my feelings," would have been ridiculous. As you mentioned, she decided somewhere along the line to play it strategically (like she'd been snubbed and it hurt her feelings but she was going to, sniff, not make a big deal out of it.) She's certainly shrewd, and as you and others have mentioned before, that is not necessarily a bad thing in the game of politics.

"Anyone who doesn't like Obama or comments negatively on The Snub, must be implied to be a racist?"

you mean kinda like how anyone with negative opinions of Hillary is immediately a misogynist of the deepest Chris Matthews variety?

look, I'm actually not picking on you...just using that statement to highlight a broader point - both side's supporters are so busy flinging mud and then screaming that their pristeen white shirts are being sullied that it's reaching the level of farce.

Hillary side - the media wants Obama to win! Really?! You expect people to swallow that codswallop?! You mean Clinton...of THE Clintons...the most popular Presidency in the last 40 years (arguably more popular than Reagan) are getting an unfair shake? Honestly? You really believe this? You don't think there's an inherent advantage there for her? Her being aligned with the Hugely popular Bill Clinton? Are you insane? You can only play the victim of the Right Wing Hate Machine for so long...obviously people are voting for her...think maybe the boogeymen of the 90s don't scare quite so much anymore?

Obama Side - Our guy is unassailable! Do not besmirch the good name of Obama! Look, Obama engages in politicking...he'd be a fool not to. I'm sure he knew about the ads in Florida, but he has plausible deniability...to be fair though you don't hear him dismissing Florida by saying "well it's clear Hillary's the choice for old people" (like Bill did in SC). Obama has his hands dirty...anyone who gets to his level is at least a little dingy...get over it.

that being said, I give my non-existent support to Obama. I don't like Hillary (and no, not because she has a uterus).It's largely informed by her demands for Kerry to apologise for his asinine "get (us) sent to Iraq" joke. She lined up right behind the divisive right wing assholes, on the eve of the mid-term elections...knowing full well that the Republicans were looking to use this as a wedge non-issue to steal another election. Instead of defending her Party, she showed her true, colours...it was pretty sickening, and a pretty good indicator of her loyalties (herself).

And I know there are probably numerous examples of Obama doing something untoward (like not shaking a hand apparently), I just haven't seen or heard of anything that crystallized his character flaws as succintly as that moment did for Hillary.

Mr. Shapiro...

When will your leave of absence begin?

Soon I hope.. that will allow you to work full time for the Obama campaign.

What kind of dumb-ass-bias question did you pose today? Please take your head out of Tim Grieve's ass and listen to the news carefully.

That way, when you conduct stenography, you will at least correctly take down what the Hillary haters say.

In this "obama is a saint" style coverage of the primary season, Salon has lost almost all of its credibility as an unbiased, independent source of analysis.

This is really shameful for an experienced stenographer such as yourself.

HRCs lead in most polls is based on name recognition and the fact she was candidate earlier. Every state Obama contested he either won or shrank her number to low single digit edge. To seat those delegates as voting members would be criminal. Having said that if one candidate or the other has locked then it is moot.

Another point. This maneuvering is not zero sum. Clintons behavior(both) is leaving a bitter taste in many voters mouth(mine included). Any gain in the short run will almost certainly cause a larger loss later.

Now that McCain is the likely GOP, she ill afford the alienating any voters of any stripe.

I know what you mean about the practical campaigning aspect, and if you'll look back at my post called "strategy", you'll see that I embrace the reality that politicians must address tactical issues. As an example, I think anonymous is all wrong here:

I CAN'T BELIEVE CLINTON SUPPORTERS IN THIS FORUM! What Hilary Clinton is doing is FOUL. Where was Clinton's support for Michigan and Florida when this was going on last year? I support Obama, but if he did something like this, rather than trying to explain the deviousness away, I would seriously consider changing my vote. I AM UTTERLY AMAZED!

--Anonymous

Your logic (and mine from previous post) completely applies, and if people even gave it a tiny thought, they'd realize that they'd support their own candidate who did what Hilary did (and subsequently what Obama did in downplaying it).

I don't know why, but the snub thing feels different--more petty, more personal airing of dirty Dem laundry, more hypersensitive, or something. You need to remember that I don't concede at all that there was a snub. But, for the sake of argument, as I said in my last post (which answered your question of how Clinton should have responded "as a practical matter"), even if there were a snub, I think it would actually have helped Clinton, in that very practical aspect you mentioned, if she had risen above it. I know I, who have generally remained neutral on her, would have liked her more for it, on several levels.

Btw, It's a pleasure disagreeing with you. I appreciate that you earnestly address differences with serious points rather than throw nasty barbs.

Btw II: I completely agree with all who mentioned that this would have been spun differently had the roles been reversed. I think Obama has gotten a pass in the press, which makes it difficult for some of us who actually prefer him to Hilary to weed out what is relevant/truth and what is cherry-picking. All the previous "racial" remarks by the Clintons have to be seen in the light of a hounding press looking for meat. They are not (yet) on the trail of Obama and some others. Of everything I've seen in the "petty category" (non-issue-related), the only two things that stand out as really bothering me are Jesse Jackson Jr.'s comments about H not crying for Katrina (which was incoherent, logically speaking) and H's not deflecting the football on the snub. The other stuff, which others have seen, perhaps legitimately, in the context of a pattern, have simply not gotten my goat. The next closest thing was Bill Clinton's Jesse Jackson remark, which I vacillate on.