A "farce and a fraud" is exactly what we have in Florida and Michigan.

I am a Florida Democrat, but this nonsense has me thinking I will be changing to Independent after this election. If the DNC is going to marginalize my vote and give it like a gift to the front runner, then no thank you, I will just change to Independent and skip the primaries every year.

Walter we get it. You looooooove Obama.

No matter what Clinton does, it is Bad.

Got it.

Now Salon can you put a reporter in place so we can get real coverage? Please??

Florida decided to hold its primaries earlier than the party was willing to allow (IE: They told the party to go stuff itself.)

In retaliation by the Democratic power that be, Florida was stripped of its delegates. While I disagree with this, I feel that decisions should be, you know, decided.

The three front-running candidates agreed not to campaign in Florida which shows that they sort of agreed to this.

Obama, made a statement about how he would support Florida getting its delegates back after all - so long as it didn't stop him winning.

Hillary, basically kept schtum on Florida getting its delegates back right up until they voted overwhelmingly in her favour, when she decided that Floridians weren't so bad after all.

Edwards, so far still looks better than either of them.

A bunch of Obama voters, for example, may have thought that, since it didn't matter anyway, they'd ensure a somewhat decent Repub if they voted for McCain, whom they could tolerate, over Romney, whom they could not. See what I mean?

Florida has closed primaries. The above couldn't happen unless these Obama supporters re-registered as Republicans well before the election. Not bloody likely.

Why should Clinton's vote total be marginalized? She took the lion's share of votes in a state where Dems were told and told and told, "your vote won't count," yet our turnout was HUGE. She didn't campaign here. And the other candidates SHOULD have pledged to do whatever they could to seat Florida's delegates.

Who moved the primary date? The Florida Legislature. The deeply entrenched REPUBLICAN Florida Legislature. Who paid the price? Dems, because the DNC stripped us of delegates and the RNC only took away half the GOP delegates. Gee, thanks, everybody, especially Howard Dean. As if Florida Democrats didn't already have a painful history of their votes not counting!

Clinton did win something last night, and she won it fair and square. I cast my meaningless vote for Edwards yesterday, but still don't understand this particular dose of bile aimed at Clinton, and don't see that she did anything tacky or underhanded. Surely you folks can find better reasons to demonize her.

So you Hillary people are saying that if we run Pee Wee Herman against two people who didn't campaign for office and Pee Wee gets more votes, that this is a meaningful exercise?

I can understand frustration with the DNC. I'm *always* frustrated with the DNC. But there's no way these delegates can rightly go to Clinton, and there's no sane reason to give her 'credit' for doing well there. She broke the rules and went against her own party.

Florida beauty contest? A Clinton conspiracy (to enfranchise the voters in Florida?).

Why don't Walter Shapiro, et. al, give up this tired game of trying to pretend they're covering this election and just settle in full-time fantasizing about Obama?

Imagine if voters in a substantially-black Democratic electorate state leaning towards Obama were told by the national committee that their votes wouldn't count. Imagine what Shapiro would write then. And if you can imagine it, which is transparently easy, then you can understand how far this coverage has strayed from anything other than racial punitiveness towards Clinton.

As a Floridian, I appreciate anyone trying to make my vote count. In the meantime, once you're done sneering over the fact that people like me have been disenfranchised, you might notice that we have, in fact, spoken strongly for Clinton.

That's called covering the election.

The short answer is the Democratic Party. They're telling millions of voters not to bother with the democratic process. Boo, hiss, etc.

But hang on a mo: wasn't Obama complaining about voters being disenfranchised in NV? & now he's saying that a million voters in Florida "are meaningless" b/c there are no delegates to be awarded to him? Why isn't the champion of change rising above party politics & supporting the right of his own party's voters to be included in the democratic process? Why, b/c 1) he got legitimately trounced in FL; & 2) b/c he's every bit as cold & calculating a politician as Hillary.

Hurray for change!

EVEN THOSE WHO VOTE FOR HIM DON'T BELIEVE HE IS READY TO BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. A PATTERN IS DEVELOPING FOR OBAMA.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#SCDEM

South Carolina: Obama is not ready to be Commander in Chief

Obama overall vote: 54%

Obama as Commander in Chief: 46

Obama Beating Republican: 48

Clinton overall vote: 27%

Clinton as C-in-C: 35%

Clinton Beating Republican: 36%

Florida: Obama is not ready to be Commander in Chief

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#val=FLDEM

Obama overall vote: 33%

Obama as Commander in Chief: 28%

Obama beating Republican: 29%

Clinton overall vote: 50%

Clinton as Commander in Chief: 53%

Clinton beating Republican: 58%

A PATTERN IS DEVELOPING FOR OBAMA. EVEN THOSE WHO VOTE FOR HIM DON'T BELIEVE HE IS READY TO BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

Must be like Walter Shapiro.........terrified of women.

...but one week before super tuesday one million Floridians get up off their butts and walk into their polling place to vote for Hillary Clinton, even though they know the vote is "meaningless." She wipes out her competition, reducing Barack Obama to an also ran.

You can bet that the Obama camp, who expected more from his big mo, is scratching its collective head trying to figure out why his magic didn't travel to the sunshine state.

Super tuesday? My bet is that Hillary wins. Big.