For 18 years, I've been the director of the nation's largest support group for clergy molestation victims.

I can safely say that in our experience, Msgr. Alan Placa is one of the most cunning and manipulative predator priests we have ever come across.

Guiliani's continued association with him is stunningly callous and reckless.

David Clohessy

National Director, SNAP

Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests

7234 Arsenal Street

St. Louis MO 63143

314 566 9790 cell, 314 645 5915

....not just this particular shining example, but in general, when a man does something vile, (rape, kill, maim, embezzle, molest, rob, dismember), his bestest male friends, being asked how they feel about their bud being accused, always, always blurt out the following sentence:

"I never saw him do any of that stuff around ME!"

I have a problem with a story that is based on accusations and innuendo. I am sure that those investigating the sexual abuse are doing so in the best manner that they can; and certainly Richard Tollner's comment cannot be dismissed (he alleges that he was molested by Placa in the 1970s). However, this case has not gone to trial and there is the standard of innocent until proven guilty.

The lack of hard evidence--or an indictment and conviction (the only proof in the eyes of the law that Placa is guilty of these accusations)--made me feel really uneasy while reading "Giuliani's loyalty to an accused priest".

I am all with Chris W on this one.

I am quite concerned that Rudy Giuliani might be elected president. I don't think he is fit for the office. But this piece on his loyalty is not the reason for it.

Yes, the Catholic church failed miserably on the pedophily in its ranks, and its face-saving antiques are nauseating.

Yes, convicted child abusers should be punished.

Yes, we might be in denial on our friends' behavior.

But: It was right for Giuliani to distance himself politically from his pal Kerik, because he quite obviously was and is not fit for political office.

But: Giuliani is not helping Mr. Placa to get a political office. He is employing him which in this day and age is the basis for a life.

But: Even if there are strong indications that Priest F was and is terribly faulted, it is for some reason liberals defend the rock-bed principles of a state of law: innocent until proven guilty! Are we to forget these principles just because it is handy to smear Giuliani?

But: If red-headed Republicans were to argue that a convicted felon has to be shunned for the rest of his life - even by his friends - I would prove their professed christianity bogus. If I read my bible right, Jesus connected particularly to the down-trodden and sinners - and I don't remember that there was a red line for certain types of sin. What are friends for if not for the rainy days? And ever heard of resocialization?

Let us assume for a moment, I were accused of such outrages. Would you really expect my friends to sever all ties to me until I were proven innocent? How would YOU feel about YOUR friends if they were doing that?

Quite contrary to the general tone of the article, I find this instance of Giuliani's loyalty to speak in his favor. (But certainly not enough to vote for him.)

Or is it accidental that the article keeps coming back to Placa's odd financial and personally interlocking relationship with Riordan? I get it, he's gay, he shares domestic ownership with another man. I get it.

Look he's a scumbag if he's guilty and it appears that he'll get to skirt out from under criminal prosecution if he is guilty, which also smells because only an idiot would imagine that Rudy has given him legal protection and will continue to do so.

But that's another expose. If you can find evidence that Rudy is protecting him from prosecution then I'd read that. But alone the charge that Giulliani benefits from a relationship with an accused child molester seems thin at best.

Extensive, careful, orderly, well sourced, and neatly objective. I feel that I've been informed but not steered. We seldom see this degree of craft even in the mainstream.

Such care is even less likely in the election coverage mosh pit.

Having read about The Rudy and his cross dressing, his affinity for The Bernie. Now his continued affection in the world of this Gay Priest, makes one wonder Who is The Rudy really is.

We have also have to wonder about Dicky and Rummy,Georgie, Rovey and Alberto, strong members of that Gay Old Party.

Goodness Gracious (as Rummy would say)is it not time for SALON to out the Gays of the GOP congress

Alex Canmpbell

If a grand jury accused Alan Placa of molestation, where is the record of the trial?

Guilt by association - if association makes one guilty, I suspect most of the human race is disqualified to run for any political office according to the standard set here by Koppelman and Strupp.

This is called a literature search in sociology - you find all the articles about a topic and string them together for a dissertation. The writer's have brought no new information to the table, there is no groud-breaking information. In fact, the authors admit that this information is public and known by most people.

So where is the news? Apparently, it becomes news because Mr. Guliani, who employs this person is a candidate for US President. If this is the standard we want to hold for those who run for the presidency, then we shoul check each candidate's associations. I suspect few would meet these author's standards for office-holding.

Unfortunately, neither side of this debate will ever get their day in court. The statute of limitations has run out. I doubt Rudy needed to use his power to stonewall an investigation: the nature of the allegations against Paca were probably not even felonies when they occured, even if they are today. (At least that's the impression I got from the article. Feeling a teenage boy up is little different than fucking a five year old. Who knows what the age of consent was in 1978. Not that I'm justifying what he may or may not have done, but the law looks at those crimes differently.)

If, however, Paca was a true "predator", wouldn't you think he'd have allegations that were more recent? From what I know about pedophiles, they usually don't stop.

Besides, perhaps his 5 year suspension from the Diocese has less to do with the molestation charges, and more to do with him possibly being gay. They actually kick priests out for that.

Having said all this, There is something about this article that really bothers me. Maybe because as a woman of color, I am automatically sympathetic to the defendant. I know how the justice system can smear people and how the media can try a person without any real evidence.

Maybe Rudy is being duped by one of the most manipulative and predatory priests in the whole universe. But the truth is, it's always going to be he said, he said.