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Thursday, May 3, 2007 12:00 AM

Northern exposure

American soldiers are fleeing the Iraq war for Canada -- and U.S. officials may be on their trail. North of the border is no longer the safe haven it was during the Vietnam era.

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 02:28 AM

How predictable...

No offence but an American with enough sense to flee a pointless military occupation is still an American. Nice to have as a visitor now and then but not really that great as a neighbour. Stay at home and fight for what you believe in.

How predictable. An article about a U.S./Canada relations prompts snide, veiled America bashing from Canadians. A few points -

1.)Canada hasn't historically treated its aboriginals any better than the U.S. has treated its minorities.

2.)Quebecois and English speaking Canadians don't get along any better than English speaking Americans and Spanish speaking Hispanics. In fact, a significant percentage of Canada's population doesn't even think it should be a unified country.

3.)You elected Stephen Harper, a.k.a. the Canadian George Bush.

Canada does some things better than the U.S. (hockey, drug laws, healthcare, good manners, etc.), but let's not pretend its Shangri-La, okay? It has its problems too.

Now, about the U.S. You think we're a bad neighbor? Well, our countries do share the world's longest undefended border and there hasn't been a war between us in nearly 200 years. I don't know if you've studied your world history but that is utterly unprecedented. Try living next to the USSR, the Roman Empire, the Han Chinese, Nazi Germany, ancient Athens, or any other superpower in history, and I guarantee you'd feel more pain than you do now.

Furthermore, a great deal of your economic prosperity you owe to trade with the U.S., your best students all study here, far more of your citizens move here than the reverse, you import huge quantities of consumer goods and raw materials from the U.S., the reason you haven't historically needed a large military to defend the world's second largest amount of territory is that you always had the luxury of knowing that no one would dare f**k with you for fear of pissing off your rather formidable ally to the south, CAN-CON regulations aside much of your culture is derivative of American culture, etc. Canada wouldn't be nearly as successful as it is without the U.S., and you know it.

Don't get me wrong. I love Canada, many of my best friends are Canadians, and I think I can safely say I know far more about it than 99% of Americans. It's a great country. But one of its major flaws is the smug, self-righteous attitude shared by a certain segment of its people, which is reflected in your post. Americans aren't the only ones capable of being knee-jerk nationalist idiots.

Thursday, May 3, 2007 12:47 AM

A Canadian response...

THE CONSERVATIVE BIT

I think that a lot of Canadians who would be quite comfortable with the idea of allowing drafted soldiers refuge are much less comfortable with the idea of allowing willing enlistees -- regardless of economic pressures -- the same latitude.

I am the son of a soldier, and I can very much see any number of cases where a serviceman or servicewoman might disagree with a war being waged, but where their desertion would simply be disastrous. I do not personally support the war in Iraq, but as someone who grew up in a family that wouldn't allow any political candidates (even close family friends) to post campaign signs on the lawn, I think that members of the armed forces have a higher standard to adhere to before they allow their (perfectly legitimate) views to interfere with duty.

Every deserter has to be replaced. Many replacements are less well trained, and they are certainly not as well integrated into their units. Desertion, almost inevitably, costs lives.

THE LIBERAL BIT

Of course, desertion costs fewer lives than launching an unjustified invasion of Iraq. Again, as an army brat, I am delighted that Hussein is out of power. The "containment" spoken of by doves was really a slow-burning war. That said, the hawks in this case have been disingenuous, and undermined international law.

America finds itself in a terrible situation. A prolonged US presence after an unjustified invasion is unaceptable. and yet, a total withdrawal could mean a bloodier Iraq, with greater cost of life to Iraqis. I don't envy your country.

For the soldiers who have deserted, I have this to offer. If you genuinely believe that you are engaging in an act of civil disobedience, then remember that civil disobedience means breaking unjust laws -- and facing punsihment. It means making a statement that you feel strongly enough to break the unjust law, take it on the chin, and use that as a platform for change. Anyone can break a law. Someone who breaks the law, serves the time, and campaigns for the law to change has real moral authority.

THE CANADIAN BIT (well, really the Torontonian bit)

Toronto is Canada's largest city, and it is surrounded by Canada's largest sprawl. The city proper falls within the area code 416. The suburbs are 905. There is not a single Conservative MP in the 416...

That's not relevant to the argument above... I just want to point out that I didn't vote for Harper or any of his cronies!

Wednesday, May 2, 2007 10:39 PM

What they're deserting is a criminal enterprise.

The U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq is an ongoing war crime.

Every single person who abandons a military commitment under George W. Bush - regardless of intent, motivation or circumstance - is performing a service to humanity.

If only the rest of the military would follow suit.

Wednesday, May 2, 2007 10:10 PM

BUSHWACOED Dollars at work from

the "COALITION of the PURHASED" money from China, from Japan or from a Tail of Two Kings: King Saud and King DUBYA.

Did Tony Blair send the Redcoats North when he visited Crawford, Texas---"soldiers are fleeing....for Canada": them who did not Serve "are fleeseing the Americans for a Yen of Euros".

THERE IS NO SAFE HAVEN FROM KING GEORGE AND HIS TERRORISM

At a rating of 23% approval, the King needs to listen to his own words; "If you are Not with us, then by damn, we'll just KILL you", or something like that.

Wednesday, May 2, 2007 10:02 PM

Canada

Well....hopefully getting a little taste of our American style Fascism will put our friendly neighbors to the north on a path to backlash with us. The bright side of the last six years is that it has opened the eyes of a lot of people to the actual agenda of the right wing (perpetuating, elevating and maintaining the aristocrasy), and the world is poised to possibly make some huge progressive strides forward, which can in fact snowball....the institution of universal healthcare reduces the ability of "the man" to bully workers with the threat of loss of job and benefits.....newly empowered, workers can take steps towards things like collective bargaining...next thing you know, there could be powerful unions forcing these fucking corporations to bring the jobs back from the third world.......

All conjecture of course, and not particularly on topic but.....

VV

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