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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
"VT found out around 7:30am that he had killed two people and was close to campus. Within a couple of hours, they warned, evacuated and/or locked down various parts of the campus, then closed the entire campus and canceled the first day of classes. "
a) By your own account, it took a few hours (more time than it took the shooter to kill the thirty more people he killed), and b)in that case, they knew who they were looking for and the person they were looking for was not a student c) I know someone who works at Virginia Tech, as a professor, and she says that it took several hours for most people to know what was going on, and d) the entire campus wasn't closed--according to the police at the time, "We did close the campus and asked people to stay in dorms and academic areas," campus Police Lt. Vincent Houston told The Associated Press.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20060821/ai_n16675467
Actually, the problems are that your arguments don't seem to follow. Again, you seem to want to use hindsight bias to interpet the events. I guess you dropped your previous "not taking domestic violence seriously" angle, eh?
"1) They had no evidence to make them believe Thornhill was a suspect. His girlfriend and her RA were dead. Question him, yes, but why put all your eggs in that basket? That kid was a lead, not an entire investigation."
What? The people known to the victim are always suspects until proven otherwise. They had a report that he was seen leaving the scene (which he was because he dropped her off in the morning) and her roomate gave the cops info that made him even more of a person of interest. Plus he was off campus and being questioned by cops. Based on that, why would VT "lockdown" the campus? What's with the eggs in the basket? There was no other incident to investigate until the second attack. Again, with the hindsight.
"2) Was every single VT security person questioning that kid? Given the previous bomb threats, why not put a couple of people towards further investigation?"
Further investigation of WHAT? Until the shooter called in the bomb threat and started shooting up the same Hall, there was nothing else to investigate.
4) Further in the pattern of non- and dis-information: in the emails -- which came too damn late, anyway -- officials said they had the killer "in custody" when he was in fact dead. Why not just say that?
What difference does it make? Besides, they announced very little about the killer until they could confirm the ballistics and indentity of the killer.
"5) I can't believe people are asking about the logistics. If you want to know how to shut down a campus the size of Virginia Tech, ask Virginia Tech. When an escaped convict was near the campus last year, VT found out around 7:30am that he had killed two people and was close to campus. Within a couple of hours, they warned, evacuated and/or locked down various parts of the campus, then closed the entire campus and canceled the first day of classes."
They knew the guy was an escaped convict who, was already being sought by the police and could be readily ID'd. IOW, they had accurate information on which to take action.
Did you read the emails? At 7:30 they knew the ex-con shot someone. At 8:03 VT administration sent out an "emergency advisory" email to the entire community. Shortly thereafter -- and well before 10 am -- they told commuters to turn back and told students that classes would not open as usual. At that point, anyone who didn't know something was going on was a bit dense.
So, yes, in August they had a face to look for. But so what? It requires a MORE thorough investigation if you DON'T know. In both cases, an armed murderer is on the loose, and officials knew he was on the loose. That would at least call for similar speed of notification of the community on April 16 as VT provided on Aug. 21.
People have argued that you can't logistically shut down a campus that big-- but you can. People have argued that security couldn't have acted far, far faster -- but they have before, in a remarkably similar case. People have argued that the police had detained the suspected killer -- but security knew they hadn't and proceeded on the assumption that the killer of Emily Hirschel was on the loose, not in some interrogation room.
Unless...unless you're telling me that security is so effing incompetent that unless the EXACT SAME situation happens they are incapable of taking steps to inform people? Basically, VT admin only knows what to do when someone is shot in August on the first day of classes by an ex-convict whose last name starts with "M", and in all other cases campus security can't put two and two together? They had two effing bomb threats.
God. Read the comments in the press from people at VT. People are mad. Parents are mad. Students feel betrayed. I haven't read a single quote from any student saying that they're glad they didn't know until 9:30, have you? It's sickening to see people defend the willful disinformation and incompetence here as "the best thing that could be done." It wasn't, and people died for it.
Because everyone should be on their e-mail at all times? Because everyone who isn't dense always has his/her cell phone turned on? Because everyone who isn't dense wakes up before 10 am, even if their first class isn't until 2 pm?
"I haven't read a single quote from any student saying that they're glad they didn't know until 9:30, have you?"
Didn't know what until 9:30? That there was a earlier murder in one of the dorms which resulted in it being lockdowned and the police were questioning an off-campus suspect, so therefore, they should be on the lookout for someone else on campus, who was unidentified (and a student), and getting ready to committ mass murder?
"It's sickening to see people defend the willful disinformation and incompetence here as "the best thing that could be done." It wasn't, and people died for it."
No, what's sickening is to see someone who first used this event to play "feminist" politics and who is now trying to self-rightgeously scapegoat the VT admin and the cops for the actions of a crazed gunman.
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Salon headlines in your mailbox
