Letters to the Editor
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Third Generation
David Sugarman says: ignoring the crucial implication, namely that *third* generation immigrants...
What generation are you, Dave? I'm third generation myself. Some of my ancestors have been in North America since the 1600s, others were here when Columbus arrived. However, my father's parents arrived in 1914. My mother's mother's parents came to the USA around the same time. A native-born American.
That's his point, by "third generation" he means "average Americans". When did your ancestors come over? Grandparents? Great-Grandparents? If any one of them came to America you're 3rd or 4th generation.
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Don't scream "RACE" to end the dialogue. There are points to be made and heard...
It was a bit obscured with all the talk of race, class, bigotry, and so on, but one thing that is overlooked from the news story itself and salon's "expert" is that illegal immigrants often are never prosecuted for crimes they commit because of local authorities not having the time to actually contact the few ICE agents allocated to their states.
It is only just now changing for some states to have more than TWO agents that are responsible for any and all illegal immigrant cases in the entire state. Imagine nonborder states that are having huge immigration numbers like Oklahoma or Kansas, which now have towns approaching 60% immigrant in populations. When crimes are commited in these small towns, it is up to the police (not large police forces, either) to try to get in contact with these two agents for multiple arrests per day. Now include the same thing happening in multiple towns, in multiple counties.
Can you see why the crime numbers for Latinos might be so low? It almost makes the numbers seem like a "Latino Paradox", eh? As in the case spoken about on tv, it's not that the crimes aren't being commited, but we definately know that many of them are never prosecuted.
Illegal immigration is a crime, civil or otherwise, and that makes illegal aliens criminals as soon as they cross the line. That is the first thing to deal with. Open up the borders to anyone who will come legally after that for all I care. We can deal with "being over-run" next, if immigration itself is actually a problem, however it's hard to make that case in a country based on immigration.
For now, we can only speculate as to whether it is the "illegal" or "immigration" that is actually the problem. Too bad we won't just enforce current laws, make this a debate only about immigration, and finally get somewhere.
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if he MEANT average, lynx, he would have SAID average
remember? lynx? he's a *professor*. now, and i'll say it slowly, if one group is *below* average, another *must be* above average - that's how "average" is defined. since the black and native american both have high rates, and blacks have been here for 10-20 generations and native americans for what? 1000? rates of violence must increase, generation by generation. something in the air? something in the water? something in pet semetary? what i was trying to IMPLY was that THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT! he does statistics when who knows how many immigrants there are? (i'll bet he uses census data and prison data). this is just a waste of trees.
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Anonymous
I agree with you that the debate should be just about immigration, because I think that would be clearer and more honest. I think most of those who want to crack down on 'illegal immigration' are generally opposed to immigration (not just the illegal kind), while those who oppose such a crack down are generally in favor of immigration, illegal or not. It's not like if all immigration were made legal, those opposed to illegal immigration would roll over and say OK, then we have no problem. I think the 'illegal' part is a distraction. We should be debating how to construct a just immigration policy, tied to trade and labor policy, that discourages the chasing of capital by labor by internationalizing labor laws (you can't have globalized capital without globalized labor and environmental policies), and that doesn't punish the victims of global corporatism (migrant laborers of any country chasing diminishing wages). If this is about population control, let's talk about family planning. If this is about cultural disintegration, let's talk about the value (or danger) of a diverse society.
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Statistics & the truth
I'd feel more comfortable about statistics on straight numerical lists like apples and oranges, rather than on a statistical population like "illegal immigrants and crime" if the polling for this exercise were done by a group of "whites", a group of African Americans, a group of latino Americans, and some disinterested group, say made up of a Norwegian, a Ghanaian, and a French Guyanan, and then have the polling statistics from the four groups sent to a country like Switzerland for final analysis. I've got very little faith anymore in demographic polls taken by let's say Fox News or the New York Times, the balkanization of American politics has reached a point where the validity of any poll with political overtones taken, by let's use the present example, one Harvard University researcher, has to be questioned as to its validity. What's being said by Harvard is that working class American citizens are more prone to crime than illegal immigrants, and why would that be? Because the wealthy in America want to stay wealthy by not paying working class Americans decent wages, they would rather hire illegal workers who'll work for less, with less tax issues you see also, as you don't report the wages, wink, wink? In the first place all illegal immigrants have committed a crime by default, by entering the USA without passports and visas if necessary, or residency documents. You or I for example can't enter England without the proper documentation illegally, without being jailed and deported. Hey, we've automatically got a criminal record, how'd that look on your resume? Another point is, why would illegal immigrants want to accurately report crime rates within their own communities? Thirdly, what's this idea that the USA can forever take in every economic refugee created but societies even more corrupt and violent than our own? Aren't there enough LEGAL immigrants waiting patiently in line to emigrate here? Why do illegal immigrants get to jump the line? If America paid it's working class decent wages we'd have a lot lower levels of crime, and less need of illegal labor. Pay citizens 25 dollars an hour to pick fruit and see how many American citizens show up for work. Ah, but then these jobs will go back to the tropical countries. Well, perhaps that's were the fruit picking jobs belong, then there wouldn't be this economic vacuum for cheap illegal labor up here. When we were in high school we washed dishes for spending money, today we spoil our kids rotten, why this rotten sense of entitlement has crept so insiduously into our society. I'm entitled to cheap domestic help etc. etc.