Letters to the Editor
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As LeCastor said, it is all just so sad
And the fact that even on a web forum, few can help but dredge up the past as an excuse for their continued misbehavior shows me the situation in the Middle East will never be solved--not by any 'peace accords,' not by the next cease-fire, not by another summit meeting.
Shame on anyone who won't choose to look forward instead of backward; who chooses to avenge violence with more violence; who continues to turn away from their own group's murderous ways.
Imagine no possessions.....
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RealName
You would be welcome in my neighborhood. Indeed, I often wonder why the Jewish Nation demonstrated to be necessary after WWII wasn't established in the American West, where there was ample and vibrant land available(at the time).
Now, your 'parsing' is really just projection, and your facts are WRONG. From the CIA world factbook:
Israel- Total Population, including settlers in Gaza and WB(est. July 2006) 6,352,117, est. growth rate: 1.18%, median age: 29.6 years old. Additionally, Ethnic Groups: Jewish 76.4% (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) (2004)-- that gives a Jewish population in Israel of 4,853,017 and a mostly Arab population of 1,499,099.
West Bank- Tot. Pop: 2,460,492, est. growth rate: 3.06%, median age: 18.3 years old.
Gaza Strip- Tot. Pop: 1,428,757, est. growth rate: 3.71%, median age: 15.8 years old.
So, as of July 2006 there were 4,853,017 Jews in the greater territories and 5,388,348 Arabs/Palestinians . Note also that Jews have twice the median age as Palestinians and half the population growth rate .
So I will ask again that you give me your thoughts on the situation, not some fantastical, paranoid projection of what you think that I mean.
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Hamas/Islamic Jihad vs Sinn Fein/IRA.
I'm not sure that Hamas/Islamic Jihad is equivalent to Sinn Fein/IRA.
Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA and did not engage in terrorist acts themselves (although some members might have in the past while members of the IRA). Negotiations with the IRA by the British government, and others, were through Sinn Fein.
But maybe there is a parallel after all: Sinn Fein is now a mainstream political party and the IRA have renounced the use of weapons. Hamas is seeking legitimacy, and does more for ordinary Palestinans in terms of practical help than Fatah ever did. So maybe if more effort were made to engage Hamas politically, rather than just writing it off as a terrorist organization, then perhaps Hamas could evolve into a mainstream (and non-violent) political organization like Sinn Fein?
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SugarMan
I read your posts, I simply don't agree with your assertions of fact. And that is certainly one of the largest obstacles to debate on the issue. I liked your take on the larger picture of groups and human suffering, and the cynical, disgraceful 'use' of this kids death for propaganda-- I think you are right on that.
You say that the groups are one and the same, but I would disagree- just because they are similar does not make them the same. As noted in the article, Hamas is backed by Iran and Fatah by the Saudis. The Islamic Brotherhood is actually Egyptian, though all three are certainly in the same larger grouping of Militant Islamists, with differences in motive and method making the distinctions. You say they are the same, and I say they are different in some ways- that is not likely to change.
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Occupied Gaza like apartheid South Africa, says UN report
The writer and many of the posters need a dose of reality!
Does anyone here realize that Gaza is an open air prison with Israel controlling the gate? With high unemployment, lack of freedom of movement, constant sonic booms that terrorize children and cause them to wet their beds the situation in Gaza will keep on getting worse, while the Israelis are continuing the ethnic cleasing of the West Bank.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2019547,00.html
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What I think you mean is what I said
And instead of poor poor Palestinians you'd be screaming about displaced Mexicans, Indians, Farmers, Ranchers and whatnot.
In either case what will ultimately happen is that Israel will get about 10% of the West Bank, all of Golan, and part of E Jerusalem. The West Bank per se, as a Palestinian entity will remain 100% Jew Free. The Arabs inside of Israel which number about 19% today will remain there. Why? Because grumbling is one thing, prosperity is another. One would think that in a pure Parliamentary system like Israel has, that if Israel Arabs were truly interested in 'taking over' as you imply that they'd have larger representation in the Knesset than they do. Today their representation is less than half of their proportionality. So it's not likely that they will rise up politically and rewrite the laws to proclaim the Islamic Free Democratic People's Republic of Palestine and declare Islam the state religion as the PA and Hamas charters both assert today. And then you'll move on to the next set of complaints about the dreaded Jew menace. Your kind always does.
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BTW I don't know if anyone caught this yesterday
On NPR there was a segment about a Lebanese man who makes his living as a 'fixer'; driver, translator, etc. for the newsies in Beirut. They let slip that the wire services; AP, Reuters, long proud of their Arab water carrying editorial policies, actually PAY for news. I almost drove off the road when I heard this. a) that they do it openly and b) that they say they do it.
It's all starting to become much clearer now. AP and Reuters, typically with an anti Israeli slant to the news, are paying Arabs to give them news stories. Well dog my cats! Viva La Revolucion!~
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RealName
Where does your animosity come from?
So, you are more liberal than the current Israeli Government when it comes to a two-state solution, but not willing to revert to the UN/Arab League/Clinton sanctioned boundaries. Interesting. You again insist on your statistics over the CIA's, which frankly I can't blame you for, but still the shear numbers overwhelmingly favor the Arabs. As for 'purely parliamentary', I think again we have a disagreement on the facts of the matter. I digress, however, as I would think that if Arabs were to take control it would be by force, not through government.
My question then is, what do you think of the current Israeli Administration, and why do you think they are not willing to move towards a two-state solution, as you yourself admit to be inevitable? Why wouldn't they move towards this inevitability as soon as possible, while their negotiating strength is greatest? Forcing the Palestinians to accept a deal on your terms now, rather than capitulating later because of their sheer force of numbers would seem the savvy move to make, if you are not an Eretz Zionist who would see all of Palestine, Jordan, and Iraq folded into Israel.
Now, I would ask that you please refrain from ascribing a desire to 'exterminate the jews' to me. Your point about Mexicans is well taken- indeed if you have seen 'An Inconvenient Truth' you would understand as I do that it is quite possible that there will be foreign refugees everywhere in the near future. But that is not the discussion I would like to have, nor is it one even remotely connected to the article. What I would like from you is a serious discussion of the issues, without projecting your fears onto my intentions, and without your dodging my questions by distorting them and turning them around. Too much to hope for?