I read pages 1, 2 and 3 then skipped to the end of the list and was bowled over by the number of responses that disagreed with the Salon position. Wow! Are we ALL deluded? Do we all have problems with reality? Are we so poorly educated that we can't read research and interpret it critically? Are we just so damned Democrat that we can't see a fair election when one comes along?

Read bulletein boards elsewhere and you'll realize that there are many people out there who are willing to 'look the other way,' as long as doing so means a Repug win! So, the thought that so many people would have to be in on the fix and keep quiet about it isn't so far fetched to me! Do you really believe that all the 'problems' with the 2004 election just happened to come together in that year by coincidence? COME ON! WAKE UP! I know it's hard to accept that it could happen in this country, but I say, 'WHY NOT!?' The handmaidens of this crew have been practicing on Central and South America for years. Why not bring it home!

Let's just pray that some of their other strategies (disappearances) don't come home to roost!!

Manjoo seems quite happy to dismiss the Rolling Stone article's allegations. He does so by name-calling, fudging numbers, conflating issues, and ignoring the most damning evidence. This does not represent a serious attempt to address a very serious issue.

Does Mr. Manjoo seriously believe that the Warren County polling station received a terrorist threat that (conveniently) required all observers to be cleared from the station until long after the votes were counted? The county officials cited an FBI threat, but the FBI has denied making such a report. Until Manjoo is willing to stake his personal credibility on such an obvious lie, he has nothing to add to the debate by showing up and trying to sweep serious questions under the rug.

A more serious approach to the Ohio debacle would start with the observation that we knew something very ugly happened there, but that we don't know whether the ugliness was itself enough to provide Bush's margin of victory.

I have let my Salon subscription lapse and articles like Manjoo's deter me from wanting to renew.

Farhad,

I appreciate your unorthodox interpretation of facts which provides an alternative view to this discussion, but your argument would be more credible if you aknowledged the serious problems with elections and voter disenfrachisement in our country. You attempt to debunk RFK Jr.'s article without addressing the well-documented inconsistencies of the vote in 2004.Your line of argument is reminiscent Fox News or one of the other sources of government-sponsored propaganda.

Having seen the abuses in voting by this administration, it will take more than your dismissive point by point defense of the status quo to convince me that there is no voting conspiracy which has been engineered by this corrupt and lawless administration.

I see what I see, which does not match up with your overly sanguine observations. Perhaps you are naive or perhaps you are providing fee-for-service reporting for the Bush administration. In either case, you have no credibility with me.

- Al Brau

Oh, I forgot to say that for many people being a Republican is the equivalent of being American! So, why would cheating on an election be unAmerican? They may well feel that they were doing their patriotic duty!

They have made the word 'liberal' a dirty word right alongside the word 'socialist' and the day may come when being Democrat is equally as suspect! It's coming! So being/acting Republican may become the equivalent of 'American' and they may not truly care about elections! They were quite willing to disenfranchise women and African Americans for centuries. Why not Democrats?

Clearly a lot of us want to

--stop getting this publication

--get the pro rata $$ share back for time left on the subsription (who paid like me)

--expect clear answers, not stone walling on how to do this

--btw it's very easy to contact AMEX, Visa, et al, and dispute the full amount of the subscription seeing as we're not getting what we signed up for. I will be more than happy to povide these 800 numbers for your readers

--gentle readers, just say the magic words, "product damaged" or "product not what oerdered" and you have a reasonable expectation of getting the full refund.

So, Editors, will you please outline the procedures for stopping service and getting reimbursed for, at a minimum, part of the fees rendered.

Thanks in advance,

Wenders

It's unbeleviable how weakminded the conspiracy theorists can be - they spew on about long lines (our guy lost an election because of LONG LINES!!!) while the Republicans pass huge tax breaks for rich guys, feed the war machine, destroy the environment, pass more and more restrictive laws, Christianize the country - and so on and so on - and you guys are talking about an election that's two years past! Bush is laughing at you (as so is most of the rest of the country)! A potted plant should've been able to beat George Bush, and you all are arguing about less than 500,000 disputed votes out of 122,293,332 cast - when you should be searching for a strong candidate for the next election!

You guys have to get over this - fishy or not, stolen or not, BUSH WON, and he's in charge and he's not going anywhere - and since YOU HAVE NO PROOF - and HAVE NO PLAN, you HAVE NOTHING! Try to get over it: WE LOST and HE WON - and HE'S THE BOSS and that's the DEAL! Now let's go get back our government!

Whether the 2004 election was stolen or not is less important than the fact that the 2000 election almost certainly was. Given what happened in Florida in 2000, it was incumbent upon the Republicans to go out of their way to make sure any irregularities in 2004--perceived or real--were thoroughly and publicly investigated by an independent, non-partisan body.

The worst harm Bush and co. have done to the country (and this is saying a lot!) is to grossly undermine the public's confidence in the process of voting itself. Not to mention failing to fix its obvious flaws, like electronic machines that leave no paper trail. Now, whenever there's a close race, the losing side will bitterly and loudly complain that it's 2000 all over again, tainting everything about the new administration.