from kena9

"...Mitch, Jonathan Mason, orbital, Jeffrey, and x potfarmer. I didn't have time to read all 79 letters, but I got through the first few pages. Thanks for summing up my thoughts exactly. There's no need for me to really comment any further!

A good book on this subject is The End of Faith by Sam Harris. Pick it up, it helps to explain a lot.

Religion in poison. It is pure evil. It's nothing more than an excuse for global butchery, as we have seen not only with Muslims, but with our own federal government as well.

Freaks."

good god, kena how many times are you going to post this inane frigging post? it wasn't remotely clever or interesting the first time you forced it upon us. if there's indeed no need to comment further, as you said (and really there is, but not your insipid shit) then why do you keep doing so, and, ridiculously enough, with the exact same childish rant at that?

go rant on the abortion thread, you unbelievable loser.

Death and destruction over cartoons is ludicrous.

The Islamic fundamentalists may have had the world's ear when they were simply shooting guns and voicing threats of decapitation and amputation, but now people have died. The militant Muslims are no longer the victims. A political cartoonist's freedom of speech is to expose absurdities in the world culture, yet the Islamic fundamentalist freedom of speech is to kill those who don't believe in their beliefs?

Director van Gogh was left with a message knifed to his chest. A French editor was fired. Dutch politician Hirsi Ali is on a Muslim most-wanted list.

The Islamic fundamentalists are merely reinforcing their own stereotypes. Perhaps a mediated discussion between all parties would help? Or maybe not: Zealotry is generally void of reason, let alone humor.

>>How is this different...

Cosmic mojo, this is different because Christians may call for a boycott. They may complain, whine, and let their displeasure be known, but they don't generally do the following:

-burn flags

-burn consulates

take people hostage

-demand that murder of those who insult Christianity, etc>>

Anti's do that stuff. They are Christian zealots.

They murder doctors, bomb clinics, demand the murder of any one who works in an abortion clinic.

It's ALWAYS wrong. Christian, Muslin, whatever. Using violence to force other people to obey your religion is wrong.

Cosmic mojo, this is different because Christians may call for a boycott. They may complain, whine, and let their displeasure be known, but they don't generally do the following:

-burn flags

-burn consulates

-take people hostage

-demand that murder of those who insult Christianity, etc

>>islam has no tradition in the visual arts>>

wow, get thee to a library ASAP!

And look at a book about ancient weaving, as just one example.

The beautifal intricate patterns in what we call "oriental" rugs are thanks to islam! The rugs were portable prayer rugs muslims could take with them and roll out anywhere when it's time to pray. The rectelinear patterns with flowers and leaves are all based on the need to depict a garden that the worshipper could have no matter where he was. No matter where he was midday, he rolled out a beautiful depiction of a garden, turned it to face the right direction and prayed.

I love Ruby's line in "Cold Mountain" about men's thirst for war:

(paraphrased)

"They say this war is a cloud on the land. The men make the weather, and then when it starts raining they stand out in it and complain that they're getting wet."

Anyone remember Andres Serrano’s Piss Christ photographs showing a crucifix submerged in a jar of blood and urine?

Christians were angry then and did push for censorship. They tried to get the show shut down. They often threaten to boycott newspapers that print political cartoons they consider blasphemous. I have missed a lot of controversial cartoons because my local paper never prints the ones the fundamentalist Christians don't like.

How is this different?

Do we Christians have the right to censor what we don't like but no one else does?

(Actually I propose total freedom of expression for all. We allow the 'mohammah' cartoons AND the cross-in-a-jar art.?

...Mitch, Jonathan Mason, orbital, Jeffrey, and x potfarmer. I didn't have time to read all 79 letters, but I got through the first few pages. Thanks for summing up my thoughts exactly. There's no need for me to really comment any further!

A good book on this subject is The End of Faith by Sam Harris. Pick it up, it helps to explain a lot.

Religion in poison. It is pure evil. It's nothing more than an excuse for global butchery, as we have seen not only with Muslims, but with our own federal government as well.

Freaks.

There is no freedom of speech in those Arab countries where the demonstrations and public outrage are being staged. The reason many people flee to Europe from these places is precisely because they have criticized religion, the political establishment and society. Totalitarian Islamic regimes are in a deep crisis. Globalization means that they're exposed to considerable change, and they also fear the reformist forces developing among émigrés in the West. They'll use threatening gestures against the West, and the success they achieve with their threats, to intimidate these people.

Once again, the West pursued the principle of turning first one cheek, then the other. In fact, it's already a tradition. In 1980, privately owned British broadcaster ITV aired a documentary about the stoning of a Saudi Arabian princess who had allegedly committed adultery. The government in Riyadh intervened and the British government issued an apology. We saw the same kowtowing response in 1987 when (Dutch comedian) Rudi Carrell derided (Iranian revolutionary leader) Ayatollah Khomeini in a comedy skit (that was aired on German television). In 2000, a play about the youngest wife of the Prophet Mohammed, titled "Aisha," was cancelled before it ever opened in Rotterdam. Then there was the van Gogh murder and now the cartoons. We are constantly apologizing, and we don't notice how much abuse we're taking. Meanwhile, the other side doesn't give an inch! -- There should be solidarity. The cartoons should be displayed everywhere. Freedom of speech should at least be worth that much to us. - When will the Europeans realize that the Islamists don't allow their critics? After the West prostrates itself, they'll be more than happy to say that Allah has made the infidels spineless. - We could see the same thing happening that has happened in the Netherlands, where writers, journalists and artists have felt intimidated ever since the van Gogh murder. Everyone is afraid to criticize Islam. - How can you address problems if you're not even allowed to clearly define them? Like the fact that Muslim women at home are kept locked up, are raped and are married off against their will -- and that in a country in which our far too passive intellectuals are so proud of their freedom!---That's why we have to stand up for our basic rights. - Otherwise we are just reinforcing martyr and lose our free press....

read more on:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,399263,00.html