You misunderstand of course ... I said you're naive when you think marriage does not require work (and/or hard work) ... sure it does. I have no comment on your own personal experiences in life since I don't know you.

Even with the "right" person it requires work, and down the road you may see this in your own relationship. Or, you may choose to fret when things get hairy and decide "nope, looks like she too is the wrong person for me ... gotta move on".

Not saying you will do that, but believe me, A LOT of people make that mistake ... allowing external difficult circumstances/stresses to damage the intimacy between the two of you, and then seeing the person you love in a distorted way based on the stresses you two are going through. Then it becomes a cycle of blame, resentment, anger, hey, maybe even hate, and an eventual "Fuck off! I'm leaving".

And yes, it is much easier to fuck off when you're just living together than when you're married. You try harder (or at least you should). My friend and I were having this very discussion last night, where she recounted her last relationship and how it exploded, largely because of major stresses both were going through (she lost her mom the day after my dad died, she moved to New York to move in with her guy very soon after, her boyfriend lost his job a few months later, and all the while she was still in major grief phase, as to be expected).

We were comparing notes on my parallel year from hell last year (still ongoing, sigh), and she felt that her ex did not try as hard to work through things with her because of the fact they were just living together, i.e. easier for him to bail rather than ride out the hard times ... there was no legal bond tying them together. And in the hard times, he started seeing her in a negative light, due to the fights they were having, etc., instead of taking a step back and thinking, "hey, she's dealing with her grief, maybe that's why her moods are the way they are, maybe that's why I'm stressed out too, maybe that's why we're fighting, and it's not necessarily us that's the problem, just the shitstorm around us. Let's see if time allows us to be better towards each other, once the shitstorm dissipates."

Of course, in the good times if you're still at each other's throats, then it probably is a case of incompatibility. But ask yourself, "is it because the hard times eroded our feelings and thus we can no longer see each other the same way? Or right from the start, good times/bad times/middle times/ he or she has always been this way and so things will never change?"

It's a very fine line ... separating the circumstances from the true personality of the one you're with, and judging them for just their personality alone and not allowing the circumstances to distort/cloud your perception. And I know I myself have more than enough times almost fallen into the D-hole (i.e. deciding to divorce) but managed to scurry out before I did. I'm still learning ... and loving him more each day.

So passionate love can only happen when it's the obsessive outlaw type or imitating Harry and Sally's coleslaw moment? Are you 14?

Um, no. Use your head. She's talking about this...

We fight...

-- momof2

Leading to this...

And that's why we have great sex.

-- momof2

A lot fight and their arguing becomes a relational scalpel that over a length of time silently REMOVES the heart from passion.

You and your husband may not fight over the same things in the same ways others do. But, you are able to make relational shit transient which affords productive moments in bed and out of it.

Relative to your temperament, personality, and lifestyle you've undoubtedly experienced the outlaw and the coleslaw, whether you want to believe this or not.

You read sexy. Goddamn! I like The Outlaw and The Coleslaw. Wonder if they rent these in costumes?...

So passionate love can only happen when it's the obsessive outlaw type or imitating Harry and Sally's coleslaw moment? Are you 14?

We've been married 8 years and we now have 3 kids. My husband and I both work, albeit me part time and he more than full time at a tech startup. To top it all off, we are Orthodox Jews (which limits sex to two weeks a month for us) and we're both overweight!. And guess what? We still manage to have hot sex 4-5 times a month. Do you know why? It has nothing to do with abstract literary references nor is it connected to gauzy bedlothes. It's because we truly like and love each other. We are committed to making every effort to make the other one as happy and satisfied as possible, both sexually and emotionally. We fight, we listen to each other, we solve the problems the come up as best we can. And all of this naturally leads to great sex. It's not hard to turn off work and the kids when you truly love and want to be with the naked person next to you in bed.

We work as a team both in terms of parenting, running the house and in the bedroom. And that's why we have great sex.

From the perspective of a 31-year-long marriage - geez, how about a little goodwill? Not to mention kindness. I mean, your husband or wife is an imperfect, ridiculous person just like you are- just like we all are. Cut both of yourselves a little slack and have fun. Sex? It comes and goes.

Hey! Well, Spoodles, I'm so 'naive' I married for 13 years, and lived with the woman for 20 total - which is just like being married. I made a commitment. I had two kids. We raised them. I 'worked.' And I realized I married the wrong person. It took 20 years to realize this. I REALLY made a commitment. And injured myself in the process.

I recommend people figure these things out quickly. Do not expect a person to really change. Bail. Now. Find the right person. Marriage works for some people, about 17% of the population by my figures. Try it, once, maybe.

As to my present relationship - yes, we don't have to raise kids. We both have good jobs. But, and this is the big but, this women is LIGHT years of the one I married. I actually love her. In fact, as I look back on it, every woman I have ever "known" was an improvement over the ex. So. I married the wrong person. Which is the problem with over-commitment and marriage. It is a voluntary jail, if you're locked in with the she-sludge. Live with the person. You don't need the state to kiss you on the fore-head and say, "Good doggy."