It's interesting Judith mentioned Nova Scotia. I am from Nova Scotia where all the people are rich and all of them are secure even though a lot of them don't have IRA's.

What, how's that, you say?

It's because in Nova Scotia people stay close to their family and there is a centuries old tradition of taking care of your friends and your neighbours.

Money isn't "worth" anything and it damn sure won't give you security. Friends, family, and home, now that's security.

But the Biblical passage states that the love of money (and thank you for getting this right) is the root of ALL KINDS of evil.

It does seem like those injunctions to Save!! Save!! are a bit ridiculous now. I'm still hearing them, though it's a little hard for me to understand why putting your money into the stock market is a better idea that in a sock under the bed. I know, I know, I've heard it will come back, but will the next crash be when I'm planning to retire? On the other hand, if you spent it on guitars or something, at least you'd have a guitar.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't WANT to be retired for 20 years of my life, with nothing to do but "travel" and wait to die. Why not do more fun stuff now and work longer? I want this to be an option at least; I don't want to be forced out at the age of 62 or 65 or 67, like I've seen happen to at least 3 people in the last year.

Spend a little, save a little, have some good debt. Like school loans, car and home. The problem was too many of us took on too much debt assuming we'd still have a job and income would grow. Too many of us didn't put away enough for a rainy day. We spent an awful lot, sometimes too much when it wasn't necessary. Like the parents who put themselves in debt for Sweet 16 parties or extravagant weddings or just fashionable clothes and new electronics or thinking it's okay to buy a house with little to no money down.

So while I agree that lean times allow the puritanical streak to come out in full force, for religions to pick up more believers the fact is that we did spend too much for far too long.

I personally screamed bloody murder when Bush decided the surplus should come back to us all in 300 dollar checks, what about an emergency I proclaimed. Then came 9/11 and hurricane Katrina and war.

As soon as I have money to spend, I will.

No, he’s singing the hymn of Reaganist Christianity, which figures each man -- or each family -- an island, and the state, with its handouts of welfare or food stamps, an intruder in the moral

Right. That is the PR this moral reprobate would like people to believe. But a cursory look at all the rich filth recently bailed out from the investment and other banks presents a different picture. Of moral troglydytes and parasites who preyed on the vulnerable to make their billions. Degenerate capitalist scum who merit no quarter yet are extolled, while poor union workers are vilified merely for wanting to preserve some minimal quality of life.

This country has it all ass-backwards, but it figures. The only god they worship, despite all the religious pontifications, is the almighty buck.

I feel (BELIEVE ME) the author's pain as she "did the right thing" and scrimped and saved, putting her precious income into her IRA mutual fund/investment scheme...only to have our fucked up "Reaganomics" (aka the "yee-haw! Look ma--no rules whatsoever" corporate owned/operated government system that we are now reaping the results of). It's horrible. We all feel like this system as failed us: our life savings are halved, in general, and it's unlikely we will ever recover these lost thousands...the tens-or hundreds-of thousands of dollars put away into long term investment schemes.

But Judith Levine is just wrong about abandoning thrift becuase of this crash. Look at the opposite: should we just say 'fuck it all' and spend spend spend? No, because we would then be fucked...and believe me in this world help is indeed few and far between if you run out of money.

Saving is still a good thing...but you have to balance it with splurging once in a while and giving yourself what you deserve, what makes you feel good.

That said, there really is NO TRUST anymore of the US government or Wall Street: they fucked up, we lost half our life savings, and they couldn't give a rat's ass. Harsh.

civility, etc...

Commericial culture destroyed all that, and reading Levine's idiot rambling creeped me right out. 'Saving money won't save your soul'? Nobody said it would. It's a part of high culture. Moderation in all things: work, thrift, and pleasure.

She puts money in the market, calls it saving, and pats herself on the back. Please.

Modern culture is just too selfish and ignorant for words.

...there is an opposite and equal reaction.

That makes some of us actors (bad ones) and some of us (like Ms. Levine) reactionary.

Hedonism always has looked better to me during good times. Kinda like "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope." Either way, comparing carnal and economic abstinance is a non sequitur par excellance and really makes no damn sense. Of course the obvious, politically incorrect response to this apples-and-oranges thing would be to note what sociologists have been telling us for centuries: people with little money or material possessions tend to fuck a lot more than those who have "stuff" to keep them distracted. Or maybe they just practice less effective birth control (because "misery loves company"?. As my father's book of accumulated wisdom (assembled during the Great Depression) put it, "The rich get richer and the poor get babies."

Jesus, who may or may not have been "in a relationship" with a woman (if he even existed, which is really beside every imaginable point), supposedly told us not to worry about where the next meal was coming from, and not to worry about tomorrow, because "sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." So according to the true Christian angle, we should all be giving our money away, not saving it, and not spending it on ourselves. If it goes wrong, to whom do we address our complaints? Rome or Pharoah or The Rich...or the sensible? Whatever.

Saving money or at least staying out of needless, self-indulgent debt is hardly tantamount to giving up sex. Taking what's not yours (spending other folks' money via credit then failing to pay it back because our 401K went away) is theft, pure and simple. Theft in response to theft, certainly, but it doesn't make you a better person than Madoff. The one-time killer may be a better person than the serial killer, but only by the absence of excess.

My father (again!) used to drive me crazy with this Depression-era crap. As a result I rebelled, so I never had much. If I hadn't been incredibly fortunate or maybe grown a brain in time (hard to say which it really was, but it sure wasn't the Grace of God that got me there) I would be living in a cardboard box. However, I have a roof over my head, no debt, am a fucking libertine, live simply, love nature (including my own sexual nature), love life, love people, give to charities which matter to me most when I have something left over to give, and that, for me, is as libidinous as I get with my (rather scarce) cash. No, I didn't lose a big chunk of my 401K -- I never had one. I do have a modest retirement fund (which my father badgered me into creating), which continues to shrink by the day, so I don't go charging shit I don't need or spending money that might just buy me food for the rest of the week. I'm a Puritan? I don't think so.

Judith Levine is having, I think, one of those "end of the world" moments, where one sees the Signs, realizes its the End Times (nothing Puritanical about that!) and decides since she's gonna die penniless and insane anyway, she may was well go crazy while there's still time, and regrets not having done it sooner.

This is nuts. It is that.

It is not All Or Nothing. It is Neither Here Nor There. It is not Black or White. We can simply gear back a little, give up the waste inherent in a 20,000 foot house (what was that all about anyway, McMansion people?) and Keep It Simple, Stupid. And yes, I do like that Nova Scotian idea about keeping close to the family. Not very stylish, but damn good support and you can say almost anything and get away with it.

Or we can all become reactionaries, since blaming the spiritual urge in us is the most convenient, least tangible Whipping Boy since lynching Negroes went out of style.

Flagellate this. You can pay me if it makes you feel better.