Why do some of you guys think that every single woman out there is dressing for just for you/male attention in general? I used to work in Manhattan, and since I was a commuter I dressed for comfort--pants, calf-length skirts (which were in fashion then); blouses, the occasional blazer/vest. The _last_ thing on my mind when I was buying clothes or selecting what to wear that week was impressing men or looking sexy--and given the long list of things that already were on my mind re: clothes, male reaction was something I practically never thought about. :) I was more concerned about: looking dressy-in-pants when I had a lot of running-around to do; what to wear when the weather started out cold, then got warm; if I could get away with a more casual look than usual that particular day; if I could get away with dressing up a pair of pants to look more corporate instead of putting on a skirt-suit. So, again, I ask--why do you think every woman dresses up with the express purpose of catching your eye? Do _you_ go out every single day dressed to attract hotties, or...?

"Is it just impossible for men to feel humiliated in this way? Is that why they don't get it?"

Hmm, well, it would be interesting to see how the victimless-crime crew on here would react if some nut secretly took pictures of their naked dicks in the men's room and posted those online, complete with comparative captions. Bet you they wouldn't think this crime was so "triflin'" then...:P

I would love to think that photographing and shaming these people would be an option, but that assumes that they are capable of shame. While the pepper spray idea is a satisfying fantasy, sadly it wouldn't likely clear the same courts that see no harm at peeping inside people's clothing. Maybe the same kind of ink package banks use for robberies would be considered legally tolerable response. It's non-toxic, but would publicly brand the perp as a pariah. OK, it's merely another feelgood payback fantasy, but less violent than pepper spray.

These intrusive fetishists make the world a less civil place for us all. Women are compelled to be even more wary of strangers, and men are looked upon as potentially capable of antisocial behavior of a sort unimaginable by ordinary well balanced people. The creeps make everyone's world a bit more slimey. What consenting adults choose to do with each other in private may be their own business, but when strangers become unwitting participants, it should be a matter for law enforcement, and quite likely psychopharmacology.

~

I had no idea. On H. & 6th. St., N.E. in DC, Fresh Farm Farmer Market vendors can use the indoor flush Spring to relive the bladder. The building was a post-office that is used for job-training classes etc., on Saturday morns. I say that to only mention:`the likable, uniformed, chest-badge-security-guard, the cop-looking watchman, the one with a goon-stick club, gazes all day from his desk. He observes a screen with 30-or-40 moving camera screens. It's a collage of people on the DC streets who probably have no idea that 24= hours a day people under under surveillance.

(I swore I'd stop posting all thoughts in public, and I flop yak flop-flop hop like a horny wild bunny, or a orthodox Jewish Lawyer Rabbi, or a truck mechanic with grease monkey roving paws who can't figure out how to lift a front hood on a Ladies Mega Hybrid Nice Auto. Volvo?After this post, I'll have to restrain from reading Salon. What an obnoxious misunderstood weird spiel- at that being said, What a Great IDEA!

I'll gnaw into the electric cord after this post.

It's a way to calm a libido? I'll embark. Wood!

O ignore. My-o-Day I do miss other interest.

I was almost to mention Beauty's Punishment~

Anne Rice, Rooquelaure. Too potential danger?

Its just one fucking thing after another.

Up-kilting... when women look up men's kilts...

OH the horror! OH the agony! OH the indignity!

What can be done to ward off those pervy women???

...??

hmmmm....

....???

...???

.... pants?

Ms. Clark-Flory asserted, "There's a vast difference, though, between slipping a camera between a woman's legs and taking a poignant photo of the homeless man sleeping in a doorway."

Both photos are taken without permission, both photos are taken from a position of power, and both photos are intended for later effect, which suggests a vast similarity. The difference, of course, is that the former is intended for erotic effect and the latter is intended for social effect, but the intended social effect of displaying a sleeping homeless man might be, "Look at me! Look how caring and sensitive I am! Wanna screw?" That the photographer took the image of a sleeping man suggest monstrous insensitivity.

As regards upskirt photography, laws need to be written and enforced to cage these creeps. However, given the prosecution rate for rape, this seems unlikely, so the passive permitting of upskirt photography is just one more thing that reveals our culture's inveterate misogyny.

But I have been fly fished

"Privacy is based on an expectation and, in general, people don't have an expectation of privacy in public."

I was raised to believe that, unless you are a streaker, you do have an expectation that certain things are private, even in public places. I can't believe that we are supposed to accept these violations as a matter of course when we step out of the house. I wonder how this Gallagher chick would react if SHE were the recipient of this attention. It's the old "she was asking for it because she looked sexy" argument. Bull#$%@, Bull#$%@, Bull#$%@.

Have you ever been in a physical fight with a guy?

Do you realize that if you pick a public fight and you start losing, in many places, the others present will just watch. Just watch. And some will smile.

Sure, talk tough on Salon if that vents some steam, but don't forget that men kill women every damn day with just their hands and that everyday, crowds of people watch other people die. Starting a public fight doesn't necessarily make it safe.

I have a friend who's a competitive martial arts fighter and I asked her, "So, how would you fare in a street fight?"

"I'd likely get my ass kicked," she said.

And that's a woman who's dedicated her life to hand-to-hand combat.

If I still haven't convinced you, watch one of those real life cop shows where it takes six cops with billyclubs and mace to subdue one bad guy. And these guys who shoot upskirt photos are bad guys.