Goes to the head of Smith's class...

Happy Ashepe

Kissed lots 'n lots 'o Smith ass

I see little difference between having a camera shoved up my skirt and being sexually assaulted, except the fear and physical pain would be present in one and not the other. One is a little closer to getting raped than the other - but the both seem on that path.

I do have to make one point though (and I might address some other points of yours later tonight)

someone said verbal abuse and sexual abuse are not relatable.

Yet, your paragraph above would seem to directly contradict that.

I think we're all in agreement that what happened to you constitutes assault and should be treated as such. I likewise agree that if somsone has to go to a lot of trouble to stick a camera between your legs to get a picture, that's also right up there.

But if you're sitting in the public park with your legs spread and letting it all hang out-- its plain sight and you've got no cause for umbrage.

I agree with Brightstar that you seem to be all about "men bad, women good". You might need some therapy too.

And just for the record, I have been assaulted-- in the true sense of the word-- by women a number of times over the course of my life.

Of course now you're going to start thinking in your peevish little brain that I somehow deserved it. That I must have done something to "egg it on" and thus contribute to my own assault. In one specific case I am thinking of, which happened in school, I did not even know the females. Never saw them before in my life (or again after that). I was just as assaulted as you were. And yet the options to me (especially at that time) were next to nil. I told the school principle and he laughed. I didn't tell anyone else. Later when I was assaulted again, the neighbors called the police and they came, looked at her then looked at me and all the defensive bruises I had on my arms and around my head and shoulders. They offered to take her to jail and I declined to press the issue. I have been assaulted other times by females.

You don't have the inside track on assault. And for anybody out there dismissive of assaulting males, I can tell you it does happen and doesn't matter to the assaultee whether its an anomaly or not. A crime is a crime.

Would you quit dicing shit up

When does a Brightstar say:

I've put my foot in it enough?

Imagine this: Might women's approach to their own sexuality and to men be a little bit different if no man ever upskirted, twisted breasts, groped without permission, raped, or molested little girls.

Except that the vast majority of men ARE largely good and fair to women, being usually quite respectful to women, and yet STILL feminists in particular want to lump all men into the same category of "potential rapist".

You want perfection? Pray to God that he takes you to heaven.

You have to remember too, AKA, you have been witness to an overwhelming amount of bad behavior due to, by your admission, your prior job working on behalf of sexual assault victims. I would completely understand why that might distort your view of this topic.

But really, were men to judge all women constantly by the worst behavior of the worst women, there would be no end to the rancor we could all drum up.

I see women as constantly trying to ratchet up the rancor, by finding new perceived sleights to get upset about.

I see men as constantly trying to please the women around them by gingerly dancing around and being apologetic.

You want open dialog and understanding between the sexes? Let's begin to address fairly the complete set of intertwined roles both men and women play in each others' lives.

parsing out this topic today, while being bored at work.

but all good things must end, for now.

I might drop by later to pick up a few more threads, but if I do not, y'all have a freakingtastic T'giving. I know I am thankful this year the political climate seems to be changing and my work situation seems to be improving.

It is easier to have power over a woman's image than the woman herself. Whatever happened to that silly little notion that feminism could elininate the differences between the sexes. Nature will out, and often it is not a pretty sight.

Of course men disrespect women. It is like the disrespect that white people felt for black people when black people were slaves -- and some still do feel this lack of respect. It is what makes hate crimes possible. I believe that rape is at least partly a hate crime and should be considered as such.

I was sad to hear on NPR yesterday how white hate groups are increasing thanks to the internet and especially in California. If you ever go to those MRA sites, you will read language that is simply the language of hate.

Human beings aren't very pretty, are they? They brutalize people whether they are physically, economically, or just socially weaker.

Women have been on the receiving end of disrespect probably since the beginning of the human race simply because they are smaller and less strong than men. In most primate groups, males dominate. The psycho evil (evol) people will tell you that that is how it should be because that is how it was, just as during the times of slavery in this nation the subjugation of black people was defended based upon their inferiority.

The internet has freed men who hate and fear women to bond in new ways. They feel their status quo threatened and what to take back their power. The strong always think that they have a right to the bodies of the weak. That is why most adults brutalize childen. Yes, I said most. Read Alice Miller. Imagine what it would be to be that little and have someone who was constantly physically controlling you.

(I could easily diagnose one of Brightstar's psychological problems. I figured it out long ago, but it would just give him something to go on and on about.)

For the record, I want to thank you for your many intelligent posts here at Salon. The one about living in the neighborhood where there was prostitution really made me think. They are always saying that they pay prostitutes to go away, but I actually think that they frequently pay prostitutes to humiliate and hurt them -- to get away with totally disrespecting women without paying the price of that woman's rejection.

Well ... I could go on. But I won't. This is my last post in this thread.