Question for Brightstar based upon the following scenario:

In the house that you own, a woman rents a room. You are also living in the house in the room next door to hers. Your bore a hole in the wall of your closet so that you may watch her undress without her knowing.

Is this just an etiquette transgression? Or should you be prosecuted for a crime if you are caught?

Glad you bring this up AKA. Did you know, I love you AKA? You make me think...

to wit.

A renter has an expectation of privacy, rightly. Can't get much beyond this and no need to dig into subtlety. It is a crime.

Now, if the woman deliberately left her door slightly open, knowing or not that any guy walking past might happen to be looking at the door and thus spot her in some stage of undress, then we do get into other territory. Reams can be written about intent and seduction and presumption and who is guilty of what.

Who is to parse out what the ultimate intent is, maybe she is into the guy she lives with and wants to turn him on, hoping he makes a pass at her.

Same in public. A short skirt, on some level, is an invite for the wind to blow past and make the panty peek out. you may disagree, thinking it is only about comfort, but I beg to differ and will call you women out on this. Part of the original intent is to passively flirt with men around you women in the hopes that your dreamboat will get turned on and approach you to chat you up.

We are back to that subtlety and intent of both parties.

That a man wants to kick it up a notch in public and to record it on a camera is a bit of the ongoing battle of the sexes for control of the public realm.

if women are vague and transgress, men do so too.

but in the feminist scenario, as ALWAYS, the man is bad, the woman is good.

IT IS ABOUT WOMEN CONTROLLING THE DIALOG AND THE REALM.

@AKA

I know some people get on these boards just to troll around.

I don't really think Brightstar is one of those but I am totally perplexed why it is so hard for him to understand why people would not like to have their space invaded. And that kind of invasion IS like being used sexually. It is peeping tomism. I have a hard time believing that these men really think it is "okay" and just ill-humoured feminists who object.

The only conclusion I can come to is that to many men, women are not deserving of respect. I have run into these men, obviously from my story. I was VERY young looking as a young adult. I looked about 16 when I was 22. That might have been part of my "asking for it" provocation? I unfortunately was very poor when I moved away from the protection of my family, lived in poor sections, and in other threads have stated I lived in an area of prostitution. It was an eye opener to realise how much hatred of women exists. I was the recipiant of some of that hate and disrespect. If there had been cell phones with cameras at that time, I am sure they would have been used as well.

I see little difference between having a camera shoved up my skirt and being sexually assaulted, except the fear and physical pain would be present in one and not the other. One is a little closer to getting raped than the other - but the both seem on that path.

Little boys look at panties. Little boys expose themselves.

I've been on the subway when a man whipped it out and began to masturbate while staring at me. Not much I could do but hope he stayed put until the next stop. The next time it happened I learned that laughing would get him to move to the far end and leave me alone. I learned that mocking men was a good defence - although it did get me chased a few times. Maybe mockery is what is called for here? Can't chase me down on-line.

Sometimes I wonder why I ever wanted to find some one - given that I had a lot of weird episodes with men. Guess I never thoght they ALL were like that but sometimes reading these posts make me wonder.

They truely make me sadder.

I've been mugged

But ya know...

I got over it.

Asehpe has said this in various ways several times. He is absolutely right.

Imagine this: Might women's approach to their own sexuality and to men be a little bit different if no man ever upskirted, twisted breasts, groped without permission, raped, or molested little girls.

Just something to think about.

Ummm...actually, there's a lot of fun to be had between 2 consenting adults. Plus, you don't have to worry about charges being filed.

Tell that to the many men who do get rape charges filed by their supposed girlfriends.

Also, did I see you, a few pages back, equate verbal abuse with RAPE?

Depends on the definition of what constitutes rape.

Depends on how awful the verbal abuse is and on how often it is perpetrated. It can hurt WORSE and harm someone more in the long term than even physical abuse, destroying their sense of self and their esteem. I have seen it myself.

That you women do not cop to this only proves out my point that crimes men commit are considered bad, crimes women commit are considered OK.

men can get raped or assaulted too. it does not only have to be a woman doing it to a man.

also, like I said, many times, women feel OK with feeling up a man's crotch in, say, a bar.

granted, many men do not have a problem with it, if they are already talking with the woman and turned on by her, but this is not an automatic presumption.