then ANY less than respectful stance a woman takes against ANY man should ALSO be included in the list of potential transgressions women commit against men.

Besides, we're ALL whores at some level. Men whore themselves out to the highest bidder so they (and their families) do not starve in the street.

Upshotting panties, groping on the street, peeping through windows, rape, all come out of the same place. What differs is the degree, the price.

The issue is that there is no price involved.

Men are and typically have to be transgressive towards women, even if it is in the most innocuous manner, such as asking a woman what time it is so he can flirt with her and lead into a conversation to get her number.

Some men are rude. Some women are too. Should all women be held to be forced to be not rude to all men at all times too?

There were no cell phones with cameras when I was assaulted (for that is what it was, right?) A man that would run in, grab, then run off is the same sort of coward that would shove a camera up my skirt.

As a man, please explain why a man would do this to some random woman on the street? What is the purpose?

I would call him an asshole, a twerp. maybe it was part of a scheme he and a friend hatched to see if they could pull it off, maybe on a bet. You just happened to be the target, the victim. Be grateful it was not more.

I would or could not forgive a man for doing what he did, after all, it was pretty rude and put you into a defensive scared stance.

But again, I cannot stretch it to include guys who happen to be passively photographing a person who remains anonymous to the world. Putting it on the web is worse than if it was for his own transgressive pleasure, but again, all transgressions are not all bad all the time.

Some women might object to a guy continuing to talk to them AFTER he asks them for the time. Others would welcome the 'transgression'.

What was rude about the tit grabbing asshole was the vulgarity and disrespect of it.

Obviously, the upskirter and the groper do not see that random woman as a human worthy of respect.

Is that it?

What is the measuring stick? I often feel disrespected by women on here because women refuse to hear me out and consider my stance, because it does not match their internal dialog of what men should be limited to thinking.

I consider this extremely disrespectful, partly because it reduces me and all men to mere programmed pablum spewing robots with no internal dialog, no expectation that there could ever be a dialog between men and women that addresses both sexes respectfully.

Part of all of this, your situation and mine is where we place the goalposts, where we draw the lines, what we consider to be beyond the pale.

Your situation is more standard, by almost any measure, most people would consider what happened to you to be a bad thing.

My situation is not as clear cut, I argue vehemently that women do not grant men the same respect and space that men are used to granting women. In MY mind, I consider my arguments to be important.

In the house that you own, a woman rents a room. You are also living in the house in the room next door to hers. Your bore a hole in the wall of your closet so that you may watch her undress without her knowing.

Is this just an etiquette transgression? Or should you be prosecuted for a crime if you are caught?

but I cannot blame you for thinking it, women are used to thinking the worst of men.

I suspect that if Brightstar were honest, he would consider that man who twisted your breast as having committed an etiquette transgression. I suspect he would feel that man should have to pay no actual penalty.

He knows full well that if society imposes no penalty, the behavior can continue and even increase.

My standard of behavior is that if I would not want it done to ME, then it should not be done to a woman.

The closest analog I can imagine is a woman running past slapping my ass. It would bother and shock me, the active transgression of it.

I don't cover myself with honey and run naked through the woods. I don't like the idea of getting eaten by a bear. Do I care if the bear knows its right or wrong? Not particularly, I don't want to get eaten either way. Lesson? Don't smear myself with honey and run naked through the woods.

heh heh..

I can answer that...

It is a criminal intrusion

And merits prosecution.

A consenting adult? Pray tell, what fun is that?

Ummm...actually, there's a lot of fun to be had between 2 consenting adults. Plus, you don't have to worry about charges being filed.

Also, did I see you, a few pages back, equate verbal abuse with RAPE?

The mind boggles...words fail...You need help!

The closest female agressor to male victim (takin Anony's event) would be a woman coming up and yanking on a man's penis and running away.

Would that hurt? I don't know. It would be a specifically sexual intrusion. I do know that someone twisting on my breast would hurt as well as be a shocking sexual intrusion. I would be very upset. I would probably cry. I might try to track down the assailant to get a driver's license. I would certainly report it if I had a coherent description.

I don't think it is really possible to completely parallel how a woman experiences violation to how a man does or to ever completely make clear to a man how a woman experiences the world -- feeling that one can always become a sexual target for someone else's agression.