I've seen women "flash" intentionally on more than one occasion myself. Exhibitionists can be men or women.

I was at a nightclub and saw a group of guys watching a girl flash her chest...and trust me, not all the men watching were "hot". She was performing and appeared to be enjoying the attention.

I saw a girl lift her dress and flash a local band her frontside. She continued to do this and the amount of band members on stage kept growing.

I was on a water taxi one time and saw a woman flashing up her skirt, I don't know who she was trying to show, maybe her husband was around and she was teasing him, I have no clue what she was up to, but I glanced away when I saw what she was doing.

That being said, idiots that upskirt unsuspecting women are perverts.

p.s. ashepe, my guess is that the shaming that women do to the poor men wearing leotards on the street that brighstar is refering to would be laughter and giggles... I'm sure that no men would tease the guys in leotards, just evil, sniggering girls.

The reason I don't venture out much is very simple-- its because I like to stay home with my wife and kids. I enjoy being a dad and my family means more to me than your words ever could.

I have read back through all my letters ever to or from you and I do not see a single time I have attacked you for your opinions, feelings or beliefs. And yet time and time again I note that when you run out of points to make you fall back on viscousness.

If you want my opinion, I think you need to do some personal introspection and see if you can discover why you feel compelled to "hurt" someone when your reason fails.

And to anybody else that regularly follows my postings, while it is true that I can get riled up, I rarely espouse violence or advocate anything other than egalitarian principles. Though my view of the world quite probably isn't the same as many of the "feminists" who post here (or "ordinary women" as they would probably proclaim themselves to be), that in itself does not validate or invalidate my viewpoint, issues, points, or personal experiences.

You inflict pain to get away. To run. And to grateful you got to run. Everything other imagined outcome is likely to be fantasy and likely fatal fantasy.

Of course YOU INFLICT PAIN. My post was about inflicting pain. Running is optional, depending upon whether or not you need to. In my town -- a good Christian town by the way -- I would be utterly safe in most circumstances. In fact, in my grocery store, there would be half a dozen sack boys wanting to tackle such a person just to prove what heros that they are.

You seem to ignore the fact that I never suggested that people ignore their circumstances.

Moreover, how much research have you actually done about perpetrators and various forms of offenses? These upskirters are absolutely the safest targets if a woman wants to fight back. They are not rapists. If they were, they would be raping people and not taking upskirt photos.

Simple. Just don't wear a skirt, he says, and quit shooting the messenger, who happens to be one of the pervs who claims that women love to show him their stuff. He says if he wore a skirt all women would be dying to see his wrinkly sack. Oh yeah, realistic thinking there. I don't get out much,Mr.E? I get out enough to know when some weird dude is staring at my stuff, and they stare no matter what you're wearing. So now you're resorting to "well you shouldn't have worn that" line? I don't wear skirts, freaks like Mr. E have pretty much ruined that for me and now no one probably can, because some people refuse to realize that NO one wants you looking at them. Just cause some hooker on a bus let you look for free does not mean women are objects for you or anyone else to look at. What's so hard for you to understand about that?

Title should read: live in or frequent.

To summarize: (a) women wear sexy clothes, so they shouldn't complain if men want to take a peak; (b) women wear clothes, so they have a right to presumption of privacy.

Hm. These are different issues, that people keep confusing here, I suppose because they have their own pet things to complain about. Let me explain.

I think in our society we can expect that our private parts remain private, if we don't choose to reveal them. If someone is not showing his or her sexual organs, given the social status of said organs (they're considered more personal than, say, your little finger or your right ear), I think it is only common sense to think s/he doesn't want you to try to have a look -- or else, they would be right in the open. Doing so means going willingly against that person's wishes -- period.

But what if the person 'likes it'? Then s/he indicates it and everything is fine. (Though it might be better to ascertain that beforehand, by asking.)

But what if the person 'doesn't like it'? Then, since you're doing something the person didn't say you could do to him/her, you're basically wrong. If I try to speak to you about some stupid topic against your will, you indicate that you don't want to talk to me. If I insist, you get angry.

So, if I take a picture of you against your will, I'm wrong. I'm wrong even if the picture is not sexual in any way (in my personal opinion, though you might differ on that). If the picture is sexual, then to me it becomes nonconsensual sex.

What has this got to do with the clothes the person is wearing?

I think some of the posters here think that what people are protesting against is the desire men have to look at pretty females and their bodies. But the discussion is really about people who take pictures of other people's underwear without permission. It doesn't matter if it's men taking pictures of women, or the other way round: this is bad. What in God's name has this got to do with whether she's wearing a short or a long skirt, a tailleur or a sarong? These are different questions.

A woman (or a man) chooses to dress in a certain way for a number of reasons, among which to titillate. What has this got to do with the fact that we are not supposed to take pictures under other people's skirts (or kilts or open flies) without their consent?

Hallo? Two different questions.