You obviously don't get out much.

While its true that I'm getting to be an old fart now as well as travel in different circles, I have certainly had my share of women (in public or near-public) showing me their undershorts "accidently on-purpose". And I'm not Mr Adonis by any stretch of the imagination.

I have some stories to tell that would rival some in those "Letters" columns. But those are for a different time and audience.

Perhaps YOU don't show off your panties, but there are lots of women who do. I don't know why. I don't really even care why. As a matter of fact, until this particular conversation came up today, I didn't even really care much period-- sometimes it happens, I get a little thrill and life goes on.

How do I know they're showing themselves to me specifically? Sometimes they smile and open their legs wider when they see I'm looking. That's how.

But its true that I don't carry around a camera and shove it up anybody's skirt. I personally have better manners than that-- and as I have posted previously, I _do_ think its an issue of manners, and should be treated as such.

<<There's a vast difference, though, between slipping a camera between a woman's legs and taking a poignant photo of the homeless man sleeping in a doorway>>

What a dumb, privileged thing to say. Personally I would rather have my personal space invaded in the sense of having a snap my nice, clean underwear posted on the internet, than experience the more shaming posting of my being poor, homeless, and sleeping in a doorway. Such a picture is only "poignant" if you're the comfortable, well off person thinking, "there but for the grace of god...."

It depends on the state-- some places it is only necessary to get the proprietor's permission to film and it covers the whole establishment. Its still not a public place and you still have to get permission in order to publish images taken there.

Paralleling illegal downloading and pirating of copyrighted materials .....

This slowly crashing culture has produced a generation without ethics ...... they will reap the crushing results as corporations and the govt apply the same lack of respect to their private lives and their peers raise no objections because they truly don't see how wrong it is.

I hope no one attacks Brothere for his comment, but he's right. Hello. You wear a mini skirt so short that doesn't even cover you butt, don't be surprised if someone tries to see your panties. As for "downblousing" give me a break. You wear a shirt with half your boobs being exposed, guys are going to look at you. That's the reason you wore it the first place, to get guys attention. No one forced you to put the goods out there, you choose that yourself. Let's use some common sense, instead of irrationality.

It sucks. The guys are creeps, the girls and women are being violated, and it would be a better world if it never happened.

However, the technology is at a point where it's going to continue to happen. Laws aren't going to prevent anything, no matter how draconian they are, because in most cases, the perps can get away with it.

I think tickets/citations are about the right level of criminality here. Double the fine with each offense or something.

Women "in public" are, in fact, in public, and when you're hanging out in public, there's a good chance there are creepy assholes around. Be alert.

No, you don't need a release to take someone's picture. That's a bunch of nonsense, and anyone should be able to figure out *why* with about sixty seconds of introspection.

If you're the kind of person who cannot tolerate/accept a complete stranger taking your picture somewhere in public, there's only one sensible thing to do: move somewhere where there are no people (or no cameras).

When someone is caught red-handed, one of the best ways to DISCOURAGE this behavior is to embarrass them, fine them, and insult them.

Physical attack is an option, but likely not a good one in most situations. Though practically speaking-- if a cop were called over by an upskirt photog who had just been smacked when one of his would-be victims noticed him, the probability that the cop would actually arrest the woman for "assault" hovers very near zero.

So if that's your style, you can almost undoubtedly get away with punching or kicking the guy. Of course, he might *really* get off on something like that, so use your judgment.

Wikipedia entry about Model Releases:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_release

Don't get discouraged by Mr E and Brightstar: of course men can understand that it's invasive to take upskirt shots without asking--in fact, in my opinion, that it's wrong to take any photos without asking.

Mr E is just overly aggressive, and Brightstar is just 'getting even' because he thinks he was slighted by women (or maybe by feminism). They have some points, but you really have to sift through the prose (and forget about the ONLY's and 100%'s and ALWAYS's and other signs of blatant overgeneralizations) to get to them. Sometimes it isn't even worth the effort.

B'star: Women use strong shaming tactics to discourage men from wearing skintight bodysuits on the street.

Now I'd like to see this one elaborated. What are these strong shaming tactics, and where are the women who use them? :^)

I am old enough that I wore the first go-round of mini-skirts in high school in the early 70's. At that time these newly short skirts were a huge scandal and a big deal.

There were lots of rumours that guys would hang back on the stairs as you ascended in front of them, in order to see up your skirt.

To deal with concerns about this, you could buy a new kind of underwear that soon came on the scene, called "petti-pants". Think of them as tights that stop in mid-thigh, in various bright colours (mine were red), trimmed at the bottom with lace.

Underpants, petti-pants, and then skirt: you could face the world without worry.

I wonder if you can still buy these; I'm too lazy to look.

Might be a solution.