"If they had special needs, on either side of the equation, being either geniuses or challenged, or if the schools in my area were beset by violence...I might consider sending them to private school."

Actually if you kid was special needs, the private schools wouldn't take them -- this is the other side of the issue -- public schools have to take everyone, and our urban district has very expensive special needs kids that cost up to 100,000 a year per child. The feds give extra money for special needs kids to budgets -- I think it is up to 6000 now. Private schools don't take special needs that require speech therapist, extra counseling, or tutoring or kids who don't speak English, and need additional language support-- because they don't have to -- its expensive.

This is one of the major reasons public schools are low on money. Special needs kids when you and I were growing up were in their own schools, not mainstreamed, and they had their own budget and didn't impact the regular schools. I am not arguing that mainstreaming isn't good for special ed kids, especially mildly behind (ie will catchup before the end of school years) -- but mainstreaming is expensive, and it now comes out of the schools regular budget. To many special ed and non-english speaking kids in your school district can kill the budget.

What would be fair is if those two groups had their additional needs meet out of a different budget. Since it is hard for schools to predict the need or fund them.

Well, I wasn't necessarily speaking to the "two sides" in the comments, but to my own experience, where "two sides" are very much a part of daily life. If only there was a gray middle ground, I would be the first to move there.

But then, just as I was agreeing with you, you go and use the phrase "sacrifice to the public school alter" and it just reminds me that there really are "two sides" after all.

Just to throw this in:

"On the diversity thing, suburban schools are completely homogeneous. My children who attend public school are in classrooms with children who are all white and upper class. "

Maybe in Cleveland, but in Los Angeles? In Van Nuys where Sandra lives? Not even close.

For me, this is the worst single thing about public schools.

We did public elementary and private middle school, because class size soared in middle school and it was a good academic school with a bit of a Lord of the Flies problem, at least for my son.

Big classes turn education into crowd control.

Now my son is in a public high school and the class sizes are a sin. But private schools are over 20K - insane. On the other hand he's in an incredible arts school, the program is awesome.

Trade-offs!!

Most people don't realize that if a student has a severe disability and his or her zoned school cannot provide the appropriate learning environment, the school system has to pay for that child to attend a private, specialized school. Some private schools know and play this game well.

It's a LOT easier to attract college admissions officers' attention as a top student in a crap school than it is to attract admissions officers' attention as an above-average student in a prestigious one...parental deep pockets notwithstanding.

What might qualify as top 15% in say, Newport Beach, qualifies as top 2% in Bakersfield...which has the added benefit of being an "under-represented" district to feed the all-important "diversity" needs of elite institutions. And cruddy public schools often have those conscience-salving compensatory debate, or math, or writing, or IB/AP, or music, or obscure sports programs for talented kids--as all those "Stand and Deliver"-type movies are fond of reminding us. Look around before you plunk down your 2.5M on a McCrapbox.

Ultimately, private schools are for the parents' egos and social ambitions. Unless you're a Bush, you're not going to buy your marginal kid's way into a top-tier college...while success at Nowhere High may actually increase their chance of admission thereto.

And with all the money you save, you might even be able to afford the tuition.

Agreed it was a bad choice of words. ugh. I suppose I mean that in all things, not just public schools. I guess I'm talking about ideologues here, people who are rigidly in favor or against a concept without allowing the nuance to influence their real-life decisions.

I'm not sure many of us taking this topic seriously really disagree. Small class size--YES! Equal funding for both rich and poor districts--YES! More emphasis on content and critical thinking and less on compliance--YES! Diversity--YES! Higher pay to attract the best qualified in both knowledge and teaching sensibility--YES! Government-paid training all the way through the highest level of schooling required so teachers don't have to toil all day in their physically and emotionally draining work (which is directly related to the success of the future republic) only to go to more classes at night--YES!

Did I leave anything out?

What I can't stand are generalizations--like the ones Sandra has encountered regarding public schools being bad (which, by the way, are not at all the norm where I live--the generalizations I mean. Almost every single neighbor of mine sends their kids to public school.) But also like the ones bigguns makes and represent the thinking of many: that children who attend private schools are elitist, uppity, spoiled, lacking in real-world exposure, or avoidant. Some are, of course, but many aren't. Same old shades of gray.

Did I mention that two of my three children attend public school (one admittedly about to start at university, but it's public, and he could have gone almost anywhere), and that I teach in a public school system?

Teachers are among my favorite people, but we can't shield our eyes from some hard truths. As we wait for the enlightenment of a sheeplike society that sanctioned an illegal and immoral war that cost billions of USDollars to come to their senses and sink that kind of dough into our grand schooling vision, we have to figure out how to get the best people into the classrooms and keep offering options to parents.