My father and mother were not married. He did not knock her up. They did not date. He was a donor and was a part of my life but gave my mother no financial backing and he had no technical legal custody. He did not even live in this state or with us at any point in time. It was very much her choice.

If women want to have children without a man in the picture in the first place, why should it bother you. Your father's rights issues and your statistics simply do not pertain to them. Instead, for some reason that I honestly don't understand, you and others choose to rain on their parade.

well i think the problem has been that for quite some time now its been touted as a feminist statement. its become political and part of man bashing. its all positives and negatives are brushed under the rug. marriage was rubbished, motherhood was rubbished, men were rubbished, and now what are we left with? the great alternative? or the last resort.

You both are great fun to read. As to you Mr.Franklin and other insecure men. My child is a straight A student in all honors or AP classes in her highschool She skipped a grade. I guess she does not fit your stereo type. She has no behavior problems, lots of friends and has colleges writing her to come to them daily. She defys your stereotypes. She does say that one way that she feel she differs from some of her peers is that she is often more independant and does not feel she needs to be in a relationship to have a good life. These are good traits for a teen faced with pressures about sex and drugs.

well the thing is your situation isn't relevant. you didn't choose to become a single mother when your husband died. its nice that your child turned out well but it has as much to do with you as economics, where she lives and her peer group. somehow i don't think you raised her in the hood. steven pinkers the blank slate is a good book on this. a child is raised as much by their peer group as by their parents. this is why children aquire the accent of their peer group and not their parents for instance.

plus theres the factor that you only apparently had one. add more and it becomes more troubling as a choice. society cannot be composed of single mothers raising only a single child. but i guess this is self correcting. after several generations the numbers generated by single offspring vs multiple reduce one populations genetic contribution into irrelevance.

its probably slightly different with lesbians but for heteros the dateability of a woman is reduced by motherhood. men generally do not like raising another persons children. possibly closing a future opportunity for a regular family.

With all due respect, there are a few things that you don't seem to want to understand. For instance, you are dismissive or ignore the fact that all those statistics mean nothing where people who are completely choosing to be single parents and have not had a SO in the picture. Children cannot feel reject by a parent they knew actually had. Children are not embroiled in custody fights where there is only one legal parent to begin with. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why this is an issue with the father's rights crowd in their first place. Women who make this choice are not abriging their rights in any way.

If women want to have children without a man in the picture in the first place, why should it bother you. Your father's rights issues and your statistics simply do not pertain to them. Instead, for some reason that I honestly don't understand, you and others choose to rain on their parade.

Come to think of it Robert Franklin, when you have visited the Broadsheet threads, I have never once seen you concerned about anything that happens to women. In respect to the relationship between the genders, you seem to be pretty much a Johnny One-Note.

Let me help you understand: I am really cool with men who don't want to marry a woman -- for whatever reason -- managing to hire a surrogate and adopt. See how even brightstar rather perked up at the prospect that this is something he should look into. (Although since I think he is also MMM, I have some reservations about his ability to be a good parent individually.) I am quite consistent that the state should stay out of people's reproductive choices. Do you believe men should not have the right to hire a surrogate and thus become a single parent without a mother? Yes or no? If no, then why?

You may have seen posts from my mother on here previously. I am her almost 16 year old daughter. If you doubt the success of single parenthood or support it and just have questions, feel free to ask me. I'm quite proud of my mother's decision and ecstatic with my life.

I only try to communicate things I know about and this happens to be one of them. You seem to think that what I've said on this thread is common knowledge. I hope you're right, but if you are, why are so many people getting so bent out of shape about the utterly non-threatening, non-controversial things I've said?

I mean, you still don't get the simple point. You bring up Barack Obama to prove that individuals don't necessarily fit a particular general trend. Yes, damselduo, that's right. It's the same thing I've said in at least three posts so far. Maybe if I say it a few more times you'll absorb it.

Why do I doubt that?

Sorry, had a funny analogous recollection. I remember growing up in the 50's with my well intentioned parents who always commented about the heartbreak to all of the children from mixed race homes. You all may not like or agree with Mr. Obama's politics but he seems to have done fine. These days that talk is mostly gone. Loving stable homes and trumph a lot.