Letters to the Editor
-
To the Professor
My own manly experience is that most men see most women around them at some point as potential sexual objects (would do her, her, her, not her, her...). Gay men do the same thing with men. At least in the modern west, it's part of male sexuality. We are unable to conceive of how absolutely terrifying this might be to women, because we like to think we would not be terrified if the situation were reversed (most women seeing most men as sexually desirable objects). Men like to think they would love to have women see them as sexual objects, so they (we) don't understand why it freaks women out so much. It would take a lot to get most men to see how unpleasant and ultimately frightening it would be to constantly feel under the lecherous gaze of others to whom you aren't remotely attracted to. It's very difficult for men to understand the daily fear of unwanted sexual overtures (at best), and rape (at worst).
How do you know:
a) Men in general (not yourself) are unable to conceive of this?
b) We are unable to conceive of this because of why you suggest
c) Women in general actually feel this way?
d) It would take a lot to get men to see how ...
e) It's very difficult for men to understand the ...
What enables you to speak for me and other men? What enables you to speak for so many women?
Don't you think that is arrogant, patronizing, condescending, belittling, and disrespectful?
-
Impure Reason
"And if you don’t think statements like Valenti's ‘I shit you not’ reflecting a dumbing down of discourse than there really is no reasoning with you."
I have to say, I don't see why the language of a conversation would necessarily reflect the quality of the ideas expressed within it.
If we're consigning intellectualism strictly to the ivory tower, perhaps the above statement would hold true.
But it implies that the only valuable discourse happens in circumscribed language, and I can't see how that's even possible.
I was raised by intellectuals and received a wonderful private school education.
I have a nice, impressive college degree.
But sometimes "I shit you not" exactly expresses what I want to say about an otherwise serious subject, about which I'm otherwise capable of being perfectly eloquent.
I also enjoy:
"No fucking way!"
"DUDE"
"O RLY?"
etc.
I'm 100% sure that neither I nor my discourse are "dumb", so tell me...
why is discourse with curse or slang words ipso facto "dumber" than discourse without them?
-
to Aaron
"...It is a concept, an identity, a movement, based on specific ideas about gender and power. These ideas, and a belief in them, are the substance of it. The people who call themselves feminists must be conscious of its core ideas. Otherwise, what is feminism? A social club? A clique? A sorority?"
I think Jessica's whole point is that a young woman doesn't have to have some academic theory about "gender and power" in order to be pissed off that she's going to earn less than her male peers after graduation, or that she has to fear rape, and the like. The only core idea is that you suffer disadvantages that your male peers don't, and that you want to work to change that situation. Would you say a gay man needed some kind of formal theory in order to consider himself anti-homophobic? Or a black woman to consider herself anti-racist?
-
how is that not feminism?
OK, Aaron, I'll take you at your word that your mention of your college experience was a caveat and not a statement of expertise. You know how I read this? "I took a class on this in college, so I know all about this." and that was what I was addressing, for women, women's rights aren't just an academic class, it's real life. Hence my writing about my personal experiences.
But thanks for clarifying that you aren't quite up to speed on issues of modern feminism. What I object to is how you framed your comment. Instead of saying, "I'm confused because this isn't the definition of feminism I am familiar with." You stated that this was dumbing-down feminism. So what I am curious about is how you claim you don't know much about feminism, yet you think you know more about what is and isn't feminism than Ms. Valenti, a highly regarded feminist blogger and writer. May I ask why that is?
And lastly, how are issues of equal pay, bodily integrity and autonomy not feminist issues? Just because they are also liberal issues? Why can't they be both?
a_ingatius, I addressed your point above to Aaron. Like I said, to me that didn't come across as a humble caveat, but arrogance. If I misread it I apologize to you Aaron. But talk about jumping all over a statement. I never said I didn't progress professionally in my field. However, do you dispute the large body of research on gender bias in academia from awarding grants to tenure-track hiring?
Unpleasant personality huh? Wow, isn't that a little harsh? May I judge you as being a snobby interloper based on your comment then?
Like I said earlier, this book seems to be written in a conversational style. I say, "I shit you not" in conversation all the time. Do I do so when giving a talk? No. Perhaps it's a generational thing.
-
I'm SHOCKED!
SHOCKED, I tell you.
Who would have ever thought that a request to "see them titties" would come from someone named "anonymous?"
Honestly, I'm reeling over here...from all the incredibly shocking shock.
-
Fersure...
I never said that I was ignorant about feminism. Acknowledging the limits of my knowledge is hardly a plea of ignorance. I've read Mary Wollstonecraft. I've read John Stuart Mill. I've read selected pieces from various anthologies of 70s feminist writing. I have read a little Gloria Steinem. I've even read Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin. I know enough to know what feminism is and what it isn't. I stand by my previous statement about the three core concepts of feminism. And I certainly know enough to register an educated opinion on this article and interview.
Regarding your question about equal pay, bodily integrity, and autonomy: feminism does not own these issues. I believe that women should get equal pay for equal work, be physically secure and safe, and own themselves (men too, for that matter), and yet I am not a feminist. I recognize that gender can be an instrument of power (as can anything in this world), but I don't believe that power is its primary purpose, nor do I believe that gender as an instrument of power necessarily favors men over women. My belief in your three issues cited above is independent of my beliefs about gender and power. It comes from my beliefs about personal freedom.