More bigotry of the tolerant from the letter writers. Progressive people, eat your own cooking. Don't substitute Islam for Christianity, substitute Gay for Christian; how many of you would make such snarky comments about Provincetown on the Cape, for example?

You don't have to approve, and you would be justified in fearing that these Christians might step out of the "live and let live" mode, as Christians have done so many times in the past. But if progressives ever want to fix this country, they are going to have to "convert" right wing religious people to their point of view.

That is impossible if you think that they are idiots, freaks, or whatever.

I find the reactions to the story far more interesting than the story itself: what does this church offer educated women that they turn their back on feminism? These women were not born into Mars Hill - in fact, Mars Hill didn't come looking for them, they willingly walked through the gates and discovered something that modern life doesn't offer - and the contempt shown in these letters is so obviously fear: the over bloated language, the hostility, the outright distortions (American Taliban? - these people are free to come and go as they please) - points out an obvious lack of inner strength on the part of the haters - if these folks - who hurt no one and force nothing on anyone, choose to live this way, why not "more power to them?" If a woman chooses to raise kids and let a man lead the household, why would that raise such disrespect and disgust? - yet if the same woman decided to lop off her vagina and breasts and call herself a man - you'd all be aboard - in fact, you'd call any dissention from her decision bigotry!

This is fear, plain and simple - I'm just not sure why. it could be that most of you are very unhappy, yet have no community that cares about you, or perhaps, you yourself don't believe the politics you spew, either way, you might want to examine what raises such hatred on your part...

What causes fear and loathing in the rest of us is not our lack of personal conviction, principle or community; it's these so-called Christians' very real and stated desire to "repopulate" our cities with their faithful and thus control the rest of us through the mechanisms of electoral government.

The question is, will these so-called Christians respect the rest of us, or treat those outside of their cult as second-class citizens in our own country?

And for the record, I'm a practicing Catholic who find these cultists to be quite dangerous for our Democracy. Anyone who believes the Bible to be the literal word of God has reading comprehension problems.

Nothing like a scary, here come the nut-job fundamentalists story -- this time with tattoos! to wake up a Wednesday. It's natural: we want to know what our future overlords are like. Women are prevented by plumbing from any career other than pushing out babies. It's a matter of pride to manipulate kids with parent problems by swapping their bad Daddy for sweet Jesus. Confusing Rules with Ethics among under-educated "hipster" kids, in order to achieve Christian, er, Order.

Sandler does us all a favor exposing the human tragedy that is Mark Driscoll and his vote-for-Bus, abhor-Walmart-and-globalism contradictions. There is not much new here, though, except the veneer of current culture. Christianity has long thrived on peddling Father-Son fairy tales to the young and semi-literate, the restless, disenfranchised drfitalongs who define a big chunk of of every new generation since Aristotle and before.

But the author reveals her abysmal ignorance, shared by most of Americans, regarding secularism when she state, about Love (Agape): "It's the emotion that secularism, enraptured by its logic and empiricism, refuses to engage."

Huh? Google Paul Kurtz, Peter Singer. Pick up a copy of Free Inquiry, it's only the essential organ for Secularism and Freethought as philosophies and movements. Every issue declares positions and tenets for love and compassion, prominent among which are celebrations of our shared humanity, love of family, children, each other. Moreover, they are positions free of ancient superstitious double-talk and made-up miracle stories. Love grounded in a sober understanding of how the world really works is not bereft of joy; it offers in fact a liberating maturity that helps us to love each other with positive purpose and critical understanding. The best kind of love, one free of burning lakes, eternal torture, constrictive credos, and religious enmity.

Hey, forget the intellectual argument: take a look at our sappy, sentimental, love-drenched culture! Harry meets Sally, Waterloo Bridge is soaked in romance, Valentines Day is a noticeable part of our GDP, and Love makes the world go round in 99% of movies and TV shows. Putting two together is the essential theme of our narratives. Our secular society is saturated with paeans to getting along, understanding, love, and the inevitability of Romance.

It is in fact hard to find Secularists OR secularists who refuse to engage with anything, much less love. Love is absconded by religion, in text and tradition, but it transcends such partisanship every day, every hour, in the lives of everyone, everywhere. It is the necessary glue for ourselves and our communities. Altruism and agape have short- and long-term survival benefits too long to list, and, besides it feels good! Lauren, check it out: your straw man has a heart, too.

>I've had the chance to meet several people that attend the Mars Hill church (you might call them my favourite Martians, perhaps?) and to be quite honest, a nicer group of people you will never meet.<

Oh, please. Being nice on the surface can cover a multitude of sins. How nice are people who think all women are good for is breeding? How nice would these people be to wives who would want to leave Mars Hill, or women who don't want children--or people who don't believe as they do. The pastor of this group made it plain he didn't see the reporter as either an equal or as a person to relate to, just because she's not one of them. That kind of thinking is only one step away from "we're human--everyone else isn't." If one's values are rotten at the core, "nice" is just a paint job, not a value.

>I don't care who you are and what god you pray to, but as long as you don't impose your beliefs on me, that is your business.<

The problem is (as history has shown us) is that fundie-value groups like this invariably wind up taking a toll on the outer society somehow, whether they enforce their beliefs on others or not. Google "Warren Jeffs"--his polygamist-fundie group has produced a batch of teen boys exiled from that society, and who have to live on public assistance. As well, members of the group were supporting themselves through welfare. These folks shut themselves off from the outside world--but now their intolerance and cruelty have become everyone else's problem.

>Something that all readers should also keep in mind is that this is not a cult in which people are being forced to do anything against their will. They have plans to expand across the street and into West Seattle,<

Sure, groups like this want to be left alone at first. But to grow--and keep a grip on their members--they invariably have to wield influence on others outside...or obtain controlled areas. Jeffs' group had an entire town's government and police department in its pocket--as well as look-the-other-way support from Utah government officials. And you might want to acquaint yourself with Scientology and how it expanded--very much the same kind of pattern that is going on with Mars Hill.

>They are also not recruiting exclusively amongst people that are lonely and directionless and looking to belong to any group, whatever the type.<

Got proof? I don't recall anyone in the article who didn't sound like they weren't looking for something...

>At no point in this article did the author even hint at the idea that conversion was involuntary or that these people were prevented from leaving the church, and they are definitely not isolated on some compound out in the middle of the woods.<

If you give people the family they never had and emotional support they never had, they will do anything to keep it--which means you have a threat to hang over their heads. That's hardly free will at work there.

>The idea of a dark conspiracy dedicated to taking over the entire world through prayer groups and sing-alongs, though, honestly appears to be indicative of deep-seated insecurities on our part.<

No, it's because (as other posters have noted), some of us out here have seen this exact same kind of thing play out time and time again. We're basing our judgements on history. Nobody is saying that Mars Hill should be driven out of town. But it's naive and short-sighted to not point out where the values this group espouses usually lead--and how they affect people not in the group. And groups like this have a history of playing on tolerance and seeming harmless. But they are fundamentally about control and exclusion and demonizing outsiders, and any group based on that will not stay tolerant and harmless for long.

>But otherwise? Just leave them alone. Not everyone can or should think in the same way in a multicultural society.<

Nobody is saying everyone _has_ to. But tolerance should never be blindness.