Uh-Oh Lola. What you said about Driscoll protesting too much just reminded me of Do and Ti and the Heaven's Gate cult that committed mass suicide in 1997 I think. Remember Do (the leader) was trying to eradicate his gay desires or something like that.

Do and Ti weren't the only suicidal new age computer cult even. Frederick Lenz aka the leader of the new age music group Zazen led a cult of computer programmer types who lived communally and gave lots of their earnings to the cult just like Do and Ti and Heaven's Gate. You guessed it, Lenz committed suicide.

I'm just glad the Mars Hill people don't all get each other computer programming jobs communally (Do they?)

In the Protestant tradition, you can start your own denomination today. We have historical denominations, but these are open and flexible. Especially, let me say, Mars Hill is NOT Presbyterian, and it is NOT Reformed Church in America! Maybe Mars Hill has calvinist roots, but... BARF! They do not have the SAT scores to get into these denominations.

Mars Hill is worrisome because they stress eschatology and they subjugate women.

The dopuses who run Mars Hill do not want to be part of a denomination. They want to START a denomination. They want us to believe that they have the real answers. They probably imagine that they are the ultimate prophetic all-but-messiahs, and that the world (= us) eventually will realize, and bow down to them.

Just a reply to an earlier post. I am a MH female member. I know several Godly men at MH and can say in response to an earlier readers post about men not doing anything in the home: Mars Hill men are the most helpful, considerate men I have ever met. they cook, clean, take care of the kids and even rip out stinky nasty old toilets of an old church that is being remodeled (now that is a labor of love!). I do admit the roles are over-emphasized in the church BUT the classes for both men and women are invaluable for teaching what a good marraige is, how to form a good marraige and make it work, which is something that is very lacking in this society. If you haven't noticed, Seattle is the worst place to date. Have you tried it lately? From the girl perspective, the men are slime and non-committal. Men in Mars Hill are especially taught and brought up to be considerate, loving, helpful, and protectors. I have not found one sexist pig there and if I do, I'm not shy to tell him to shove it and go away. The Bible says to follow a husband who is being Godly and following Christ. If my husband strayed from that I would call him on that and we would work it out. I have never been told to stay at home when I get married. I may because that may be what's best for the kiddos but I may also work part-time because that's what's best for the family. For me it doesn't have much to do with being christian or not christian but what's best and responsible for a healthy loving family. I believe personal decisions like this are something between God, the husband and wife to mutually work out as partners.

Secondly, it saddens me that in this city people have lost touch with a beautiful God who is loving. I have been a christian (all sorts of denominations) all my life, but not always a practicing christian. Since joining Mars Hill and renewing my faith, I can say it hasn't been easy (faith and journeying with God is never easy but worth it in the end), but it has been a beautiful and wonderous journey. I have met the most caring, loving, TRUE, God-centered, other-centered people and surrogate family who would do anything for me. for those of you who are questioning, I'm not out to convert you, but I do ask you to check out the church for yourself before commenting and ask a real person why they go there.

Love to you either way,

>And it does need to stop. It's bigotry, plain and simple. She shouldn't have to put up with the vile comments that some people here have written about her, her family and her community. She didn't give up the right to be treated with respect just because she talked to a reporter, nor should she have to defend her way of life to the likes of you.<

Oh, come on. When you put your business in the street, it's asinine (and dictatorial) to expect the street not to talk about it. Part of the bargain you make is that some people who read about you will not have nice things to say about you or the way you live. If you can't handle that, don't be in an article, period.

>In fact, the only reason why she seemed like she was in the piece at all was to show that, just like plenty of other people, she could get frustrated with her child and that she could wonder about roads not taken. From what she said, she wanted to talk about her entire spiritual journey, *not* about her frustrations, and this story didn't represent that accurately. Nothing wrong with her saying that.<

Fine--if there's a part of this interview dealing with that journey that Ms. Sandler didn't include, then she would have a point. But no reporter-with-chops would avoid exploring how Judy's decision to go from independent woman to kuche/kinder has worked out for her. And, frankly, it really sounds as if Judy is backpedaling (most likely becaue of pressure from husband and church.)

All of us liberals who claim that abortion rights, gay marriage, etc. are rights which must be promoted / defended in a secular society are hypocrites of the *worst* kind if we ourselves feel threatened by what religious conservatives decide to do with their own lives.<

_Again_ (and you really seem to have a hard time getting this, bma) these folks don't want to live and let live. The purpose behind this movement is to get MH members into politics, etc., so they can make public policy that will affect everyone. Have you been asleep through the past eight years of the Bush administration that you don't see how this kind of thing starts--and spreads? The kind of "tolerance" you encourage is for people to be silent or deliberately blind until it's too late.