Actually, my bet was that we would finally have proof that W was the devil if he could have brought about peace in the Middle East...but he tried that for about 5 minutes about a year ago, and he threw the towel in faster than any other President we've ever had...that would have been just dandy to watch Bush's Army of God, Inc. try to explain that one to each other, but life isn't ironic enough for me to live and see that...

I would be curious to know if any of the kids from MHC are going to Jesus Camp...since MHC supposedly differs from the rest of their evangelical bretheren, I'd be curious to hear their thoughts on that...

As for a supreme power higher up in the sky...well, as I said in a previous post, there's a sucker born every minute...

There, MHC can pray for my soul on that final note.

...if you do come to Seattle, let's meet up for a beer. You sound cool.

Judy,

"It needs to stop."

In other words, you want your message out as you want it, not as the author wanted to convey it, so "it needs to stop."

I do think you've been listening to authoritarians a bit too long. It doesn't work that way in the real world. Once things hit the blogosphere, they tend to splatter. Maybe you react well these days to authoritarian pronouncements, but many people don't. It's helped make this country strong. This country, remember? Where there's a separation of church and state -- a separation that you seem to have opted out of.

We've already seen, in this article, an example of your Mr. Driscoll using his kids as status symbols (personally, I'd prefer a Porsche: you don't have to toilet train it, put braces on it, or send it to college), which I think is a particularly small-minded move. If you had wanted your children to be sacrosanct, it might have been smarter not to talk about them. Once you talk to reporters, you've taken yourself out of whatever theological dovecote you've been living in and put yourself in the public domain.

There's a saying, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Only thing is, you went back -in-.

So I'm afraid the paradox is yours to deal with, as are the consequences: if you've given up your authority to male authority figures, you can't very well ask outsiders (especially feminists) to respect it. Oh, and don't try dragging your husband's authority in, either. You made the choices: you deal with them.

Greeneyedkzin

Greeneyedkzin,

Why don't you get off that high horse of yours and realize that Judy (or any of these people) isn't just the one-note stereotype that you'd like to believe she is?

And it does need to stop. It's bigotry, plain and simple. She shouldn't have to put up with the vile comments that some people here have written about her, her family and her community. She didn't give up the right to be treated with respect just because she talked to a reporter, nor should she have to defend her way of life to the likes of you.

In fact, the only reason why she seemed like she was in the piece at all was to show that, just like plenty of other people, she could get frustrated with her child and that she could wonder about roads not taken. From what she said, she wanted to talk about her entire spiritual journey, *not* about her frustrations, and this story didn't represent that accurately. Nothing wrong with her saying that.

All of us liberals who claim that abortion rights, gay marriage, etc. are rights which must be promoted / defended in a secular society are hypocrites of the *worst* kind if we ourselves feel threatened by what religious conservatives decide to do with their own lives.

And that Porsche comment? *Pure* class.

bma

Michon was right. I got a Mars Hill (Driscoll) sermon on podcast to see if they were the International Church of Christ in disguise. Although some things are very close, they aren't. They have many things in common (I will list those later) but some of their theology is a little different. Anyway, the sermon I got was Divorce and Remarriage because that would have been a good way to tell if they were the ICOC in disguise.

The podcast sermon said that the man has the total responsibility of making the living for the family. And yet this group is aware of and critical of the excesses of corporate culture. Surely this group realizes it's corporate culture that has in large part made it impossible for a man on a single income to support a family?

Is this group and other evangelical groups with that same belief going to use their collective power to bring back high-paying jobs where one parent can afford to stay home? If so I want to watch them in action and I'd be behind that.

People I have known in other denominations that teach this are often too naive to realize the jobs have disappeared and if one man can't make a living with one income, it's not entirely his fault. If he had been more aware he'd have gone into the trades and become a $100,000 electrician. Many solid middle-class people who think they're "white collar" still haven't smelled the coffee and think a man is just lazy if he's not able to get a decent job, much less be the sole support of a family. Adding to the problem, many Christian fundamentalists are raised in households where world-savvy topics like this are not discussed. Young people don't realize which kinds of jobs are more likely to stick around and stay decent. I just wonder what kinds of jobs the males in Mars Hill Church are working that they can be the sole support. Having grown up in the church of Christ, I have seen it happen over and over again--young people think it's going to be easy and when it's harder than it looked, they blame themselves. I hope the people at Mars Hill are savvy enough to put some of the blame where it belongs--and to quote the song, "hate the man who sent the jobs away." I hope these newly minted fundies will make themselves useful and hold corporate America's feet to the fire on the job and wage issue and while they're at it, family time. I work in a major corporation and it's a contest to see who works the longest hours and goes the longest without seeing their family. I wish some of the ones in power WOULD get religion and overturn the money changer tables starting in the CEO's office. Hallelujah!

Next post I will tell how Mars Hill is like the International Church of Christ.