>In true form to his world view, he chose and is chosing severing relationships with many talented people to ensure that his authoritarian-based, protectionist structure continues to function unchallenged without any serious internal airing of differences.<

If a ministry is about getting and keeping power instead of ministering to souls and helping people grow spiritually, it is _not_ a true ministry. And using people's search for community to keep them in line is not Christian. Mars Hill is all about Driscoll wanting to control a world that he fundamentally fears. I don't think he's found real healing for himself--just a way to crack the spiritual whip on others the way the world abused him.

....but I guess I won't be able to escape their reactionary nonsense. Reading this article made me fustrated, frightned and deeply depressed by turns. I too have faced misogyny on all sides; i've never thought that progressive secular circles were immune to the destructive and oppressive influence of patriarchy. This stuff is in the very air we all breathe from the moment we are born and pervades all our actions, if not our ideals, simply because none of us are born completely impervious to outside influence.But I have faith in the idea that there is honor in striving to dismantle patriarchy, fighting against social injustice, and empowering those who work beside you to not lose hope and decide that the 'old ways are best' because they are tired of fighting an almost endless tide of opposition from both inside and outside of the 'cause'. The Mars Hill church is simply another example of regressive forces co-opting messages of change and empowerment in order to turn back the clock to the middle ages, where everyone knew their place, with despotic rulers on thrones opressing every caste beneath them, and the men of each caste, even the lowest, with the power of life and death over every woman.Oh, except now the boots on their feet will have steel toes, their tattoos,vespas,betty page haircuts,stripy shirts,black lace corsets, vegan diets and organic groceries will make it seem like it's something 'new' and 'transgressive'. There is nothing radical about adopting a version of christianity from selectively interpreted portions of a religious text so heavily edited over millenia as to have lost most of whatever might have been the original message. The teachings of the minister at Mars Hill Church have about as much to do with the actual will of God and the 'message' of Christ as Sadaam Hussein had to do with 9-11. They are all about as transgressive as your average snake-handling heathen damning backwater church congregation. All nice people, of course, except for the fact that if you don't believe what they believe they think you're going to be thrown into eternal burning hellfire. And they want to take over the government and the schools so you and your children will have no choice but to hear them out and perhaps fall under their spell. There is nothing benign about evangelical fundamentalist christianity. The philosophy of 'live and let live' does not apply to this sort of religion simply because if they had their druthers, we'd all be living like them.

The stories of those women brought tears to my eyes. My heart breaks for them. They are clearly very unhappy. My heart breaks for little Asher too. Someday he's going to know that his mother doesn't want and never did want him.

Driscoll and his women-hating ilk can shove this life of drugery up their collective asses.

Did you even read my post? I ask that you and anyone else who feels obligated to comment on my children to please stop. This interview was supposed to be about my love for Jesus and how my life is different (better!) than before I knew Him. The story was instead twisted to support the author's view on feminism & submission. It infuriates me that my family has been drug into this bash fest and it needs to stop.

That a movement like Mars Hill could gain enough political clout to remake society in its own image scares me. But, for a couple reasons, I wonder whether this movement will still be thriving in another decade.

One reason for doubt is practical. The young men of Mars Hill have given themselves the task of becoming sole breadwinners for huge families. Four or five decades ago, a man could pull that off, but the cost of living is higher now, and many couples agree that nothing threatens marital bliss like money woes. In between tending to toddlers and stretching a pound of hamburger to feed another mouth, Mama might start to resent the fact that, while Papa didn't have to cede a single song from his iPod, she had to give up every whiff of modernity since 1920. Many women who stay in these marriages might do so only with an understanding: "With so many mouths to feed, we both have to bring home paychecks." And as many experienced couples know, the wife facing the pressure of outside employment doesn't bode well for the biblical interpretation of male headship and female acquiescence.

The other reason for doubt is spiritual. Journalist and essayist Richard Rogriguez recently remarked, "I don't understand these super churches that talk about Christ as a winner. Christ was a loser in this world." If Mars Hill really is about overtaking the voting public and slapping the nonbelievers into shape, the community's deepest thinkers might face a crisis of faith. Of course, that assumes Mars Hill has a lot of deep thinkers in the first place.

I guess Salon is becoming Fox News without a bra. Reading the article was excruciating. The hysteria the author felt when around all those 'Fundamental cootie carriers' was palpable. I'm in no way connected to Mars Hill...heck, I don't even go to church, but this article was so one-dimensional, even MC Escher would have trouble making sense of it. The mid-article lament was strange...'I was stung'... Especially considering the context of the conversation. Stockholm syndrome perhaps?

I have known people (couples) that have attended Mars Hill. From my experience, they are genereally a group that values individuality in the context of community. They are intellignet, well-read, educated, and have been pumped full of the utopian-new world order-(dare I say)feminist-Enlightenment dogma that our Universities can fill a person with in the four years they are there (or 7 years for those select few that really enjoy pain). None of these visons have delivered on their promises, and people have appropriatley rejected them. Where do you go to when your gods have failed you?

I don't have a tattoo, I don't like Tarantino movies, I've never 'crushed' a half-pipe, and the thought of piercing my body makes me weak in the stomach..but I do know what its like to want to belong to a community of shared vision. Mars Hill is far more inclusive than exclusive, and to reduce their movement into a 3 page article of feminist grievances is myopia of the worst kind.

Mark N.