"Driscoll and his Mars Hills followers epitomize the mounting evangelical youth movement in America."

"The Disciple Generation is an ever-growing population of people ages 15 to 35 who are equally obsessed with Christ and with culture as a means to an evangelical end."

Mounting ... ever-growing. Do we have any evidence to support these assertions? I guess we are expected to, appropriately enough, take them on faith.

An interesting story, dear writer, but not exactly journalism.

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I'm with former fundie on this one. This misogynistic and antigay bullshit masquerading as Christian 'hipness' makes me want to throw up. And I'm a Christian (in Seattle, not that that makes any difference). Driscoll's attitude is so fiercely know-it-all-little-boy, it would be amusing if he didn't have such influence over people's lives.

this is just another example of Reg Morrison's "spirit in the Gene" made flesh.

the tribe the procreates, and believes in the supernatural (and it helps if they're very warlike, they usually are), is the tribe that is most likely to send its DNA into the next generation, and beyond.

The tribe that doesn't do these things, or isn't these things, dies out.

We humans are, by definition, descended from some VERY violent people. We wouldn't be here if we weren't. We're probably descended from VERY religious people too, because belief in the supernatural is a clear survival adaptation.

Of course, it'll kill us all in the end, since the Earth is a sphere, finite and bounded, whereas we just keep reproducing like flies.

Read Morrison's book, and it all becomes quite clear. This kind of belief in the supernatural is an intensely primitive phenomenon. The result of brains that cannot, for whatever reason, make the leap that the reason they FEEL GOOD when they do religion is because of the brain-chemicals, not because of divine revelation.

It's just too damned bad that THERE IS NO GOD. If there was one, he'd wipe out these dumb fuckers, and every other dumb fucker who believes this shit.

But, there is no God. So they'll wipe US out.

Personally, I'm so very tired of groups that purport to be young, hip, and novel, but rely on the age old politics of sexual subjugation and moral superiority. Most "new" religions and denominations have at their core the desire to create a hierarchy in which the founders find themselves superior. Which is not all that novel, just pathetic.

I recently met one of these culturally mainstreamed, Gen-Y Christians from the Pacific Northwest on an airplane. I debated theology with him for a couple hours.

Although I don't know about this specific Seattle church, my impression is that it seems to fit into the traditional mold of American evangelical Christianity. Fundamentalist, communal, apolitical. They're mostly interested in minding their own business, and aren't anywhere near the same threat to our country as are the older voters in Bush's Religious Right base.

Except for one thing. My seatmate, like this Ted Dietz, was steeped in the Rapture, in Premillennialist thinking of the "Left Behind" variety. Like Dietz, he was enthusiastically hoping to fulfill prophecy by constructing a new Temple in Jerusalem -- regardless of whether (or because) it would spark a World War in the Middle East (a likely consequence of destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock).

I'm starting to wonder whether Rapturists will be a greater threat to world peace than Islamic Fundamentalists.

I'm not exactly feeling the love.

Mars Hill has certainly constructed a community that is appealing to an apparently large and growing number of young people. The structure and discipline and sense of belonging are attractive in this age where there is little trust in institutions of all kinds--be it the government, traditional churches, schools, capitalism. But Mars Hill is just one example of a growing Christian movement most frequently labeled "Emergent". There are many emergent churches building communities that may seem similar in some respects to Mars Hill--they attract young people hungry for community, they engage popular culture, music, the arts, they are socially active in all kinds of fields. Many of these emerging communities are difficult to pin down with labels like fundamentalist or liberal because there is a wide range of theological teaching from biblical literalists to theological progressives. They differ widely when it comes to the role of women in the church--a number of emergent churches have women pastors. There are differences in acceptance of Gays and Lesbians, different teachings regarding economics, abortion, and engagement with popular culture. What most of these diverse communities do share is the realization that the majority of churches in our culture, be they slowly dying mainline protestant denominations or evangelical megachurches do not speak to an emerging post-modern generation. They build community and try to simply live out their daily lives as followers of Jesus. Do a wikipedia search for 'Emergent Church" to get a good overview of the wide diversity among these communities that is not apparent in this piece.

My heart goes out to the woman who put aside her life as a freewheeling, successful marketer to become a submissive Stepford wife baby-hatcher. She clearly regrets her decision. It is all well and good that she accepts the consequences of her choice, but let's remind her that there is another way, one in which she honors her commitment to her children. She can leave the church, ditch the loutish husband, and find a new community that values her for her personhood rather than her uterus. Yes, divorce is painful, but will it be more painful to remain in the prison where she currently dwells. Yes, she would be excommunicated from this Mars Hill community, but there's a whole big beautiful free world out there outside of it.

just when the left needs so desperately to touch the right, it does so in all the wrong ways.

This is the the same old Mormon, Muslim, Catholic, Protestant etc, misogynist schtick, all dresed up in tattoos and listening to rock and roll. Martin Luther, the great Protestant "reformer" said of women, "..if they eventually bear themselves tired and dead, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that is what they are here for." The message at Mars Hill is exactly the same. Be obedient and breed as fast as you can or go directly to hell. Oh, and check out what I've got going on the ipod!

Give it a few years. Right now heir cult is exciting, warm and fuzzy. And there's not doubt it is a welcome relief from the alientation of our deeply cosumerist-corporate greedfest culture. But it won't stay that way. Right now those group-monitoring cells are beloved family. Soon enough, those little cells tend to morph into organizations for the "Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue."

I grew up in the fifties where most women were living the proscribed Christian ideals espoused by the Mars Hill Church. And it sucked - really, really sucked for many, if not most, of them. The Mars Hill folks are young and enthused about being ever so special in the eyes of God. After all they are guaranteed to be raptured up soon, if their leader is to be believed.

When the raputure doesn't manifest. and the drugery of caring for more children than they ever wanted becomes overwhelming, these women are going to bolt. They are going to remember the days where they had autonomy, respect, economic freedom and could make their own decisions. I only hope they don't bolt in the same manner as the submissive, fundamentalist Christian mother in Texas, Andrea Yates, who drowned all her kids.

As for the men, they will tire of their automaton wife-toys (as they did in the 50's) and go find something a little more intersting, along the lines of a trophy (also as heppened in the 50's), leaving mommy with a handful of kids to feed, clothe and educate on a few hundred dollars a month child support.

Nothing ever changes, especially not the foolishness of young women believing that the church will care for them. It never has. It doesn't now, And, I suspect, it never will. In Christian communities, you lose your man and you're on your own. Oh, you may get a little help at first and for a little while, but really, what use do they have for a single woman with a bunch of kids and no man around to run things?

None of this is new, really. When I was a teen, there was The Children of God cult. They're still around, but most of the young people who were original members left a long time ago.