>You don't have to be Miss Popularity to have a first kiss by the start of college, please.<

Your experience isn't everyone's experience, LeCastor. And the social setup at the high school you attended is _not_ the same everywhere. And, again, not everyone wants to have a first kiss just to have a first kiss--for some people that means something. Or it's something they'd rather do without the whole school finding out and ragging on them about it.

Deering,

I have to disagree. I think statistics show that by the end of high school, something like 52% of people have lost their virginity (average age is 17), but whatever, i'm just talking about a first kiss here. What is it going to mean to someone when they're 12 or 14, playing?

I really don't understand why even a first kiss must "mean something"! Imagine if people got this worked up about other things, like the first time you drive a car (which, very much like sex, might not be a very enjoyable experience), the first time you hold hands with someone, the first time you ask a girl out, does it all have to "mean something"? And this is why i'm saying that putting so much weight on this life event makes it so much harder for people to actually go through with it, because in our society, it's still considered something special, especially for women, something that must "mean something." And if you think about it, it's probably not going to be the first time you have an orgasm (which, arguably is much more meaningful), not going to be the first time you are intimate with someone, not the first time, eif you're a woman, that you will have something inside you, etc. It's just a made-up event, and people need to get over it as being something "special." that is just a vestige of religiosity and puritanism and traditional sexual mores -- that sexual or sexually-related events must be something special. We don't have this requirement for pretty much anything else.

Sure you can have an adult relationship without having sex. My parents had an adult relationship with no sex for three years before they married.

I think they got the hang of it. They've been married 40 years.

I'm saddened by this article, but I'm equally appalled by some of the cruel, judgemental, and snide remarks on this board. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but why do some people feel the need to make degrading attacks? To quote a phrase, "Have you no sense of decency?"

I meant to ne constructive in my post. Yeah, it wasn't advice I'd give to a friend because it was too blunt, but I figure on amessage board, bluntness can sometimes be welcome since you may never hear that kind of advice in real life. Also, I'm a woman - married with two children.

...you're still not getting it.

I think you need to accept that there is more than one way to live a healthy adult life.

For some people, a first kiss means something, whether they have it at twelve or at thirty. For others, it doesn't. Neither way is intrinsically better or more "normal" than the other. If you're going by the mathematical definition of "norm", then sure. There will be an average, as far as ages and preferences go, and some people will be closer to it and others further away.

The important thing to realize is that "norm" in the sense of "average" does not necessarily equal "healthy", and you seem to be stuck on that.

And by the way, I have to echo deering here. I see very little evidence of anyone who is still a virgin saying that they expect their first time to be some huge life-changing event.

It's just a made-up event, and people need to get over it as being something "special." that is just a vestige of religiosity and puritanism and traditional sexual mores -- that sexual or sexually-related events must be something special.

No. No, no no. Do you not see what you're doing here? You're taking your own preferences and mores and assigning them to someone else. A person is allowed to treat their first time as "special", and that has nothing to do with any kind of puritanism. Just because you can't picture it doesn't make it so. Frankly, what you're saying is just as insulting as someone preaching about how a woman needs to save herself for marriage. Please, just accept that humans have a vast range of personalities and responses, and that what you consider right isn't true for others. By telling someone to "get over it", you're telling them that they should live their emotional/sexual lives to fit in with your particular worldview. That's pretty insulting.

This article seems to define 'sex' as penetration. And penetration equals penis in a vagina. Could that be anymore narrow-minded? If penis in vagina weren't so built up as the be-all and end-all of sexual experience, would there even be any issue here? If we weren't defining sex in these terms only, would there be so many so-called virgins? What about masturbation? Fellatio and cunnilingus are far more intimate practices than intercourse, yet intercourse is defined as sex. Some people even consider kissing to be more intimate than intercourse. This is one of these articles that makes me glad that I'm a lesbian. I didn't have sex with a woman until I was 21. She was 23 and had never had sex with a woman either, and it was absolutely a non-issue. Later when I had sex with the one man that I've been with in my life, I told him I'd only been with women and it was absolutely a non-issue with him too. I've been with a handful of women since then who were first-timers and guess what, they weren't bad in bed and they didn't develop stalker crushes on me afterwards. I think I have a hard time believing so many guys would reject 'virgins'. If two people are really attracted to each other, something like this is not going to be a huge obstacle, nor should it be. I think people should define sex for themselves and not feel like aliens if they've never had a penis inside them. Mutual masturbation, oral sex, penetration with tongues and fingers- ALL of that is sex to me.