I loved her too- i really did. But after a year and a half, I was at my wits end and had to end it. She tried a little bit from time to time, but i felt it was demeaning to have to coax her into stuff and eventually stopped trying at all(she was 27 at the time, as was I). This took me a good two years to fully get over, part of that time dating someone else. So the message here is virgins, go ahead and be virgins (as an aside, my ex gf had several friends who were also virgins, most were reasonably attractive, intelligent, otherwise pretty normal, prude, but normal). But know that your actions affect other people. If you dont want sex, fine, but be upfront about it, know most people have the need and be ok with the fact that most people will not wait around forever.

i just said i found it ironic. Don't you? There's a real struggle between not caring what people think and not wanting to feel alone and freakish.

I'm not trying to be attacking, just observant.

>...you didn't even have a kiss in high school, you were 17 or 18, ostensibly brimming with hormones, and you didn't want to meet men? This is why i suggested, with absolutely no meanness intended, that maybe you simply aren't very intersted in relationships or sex.<

Why do you think that the "hormonal teenager" is the standard for everyone? That's the same annoying mindset that claims introverts and loners are unnatural because they don't want to socialize as much "as everyone else does." And you are sounding as if you _do_ think this is weird, even though from the sound of responses on here, it's a fairly common occurence. Not everyone grows up as Miss Popularity; not everyone lives life in a teen pix. In fact, I would bet good money the number of people who don't vastly outnumber those who do...

-- deering

Oh, c'mon, I wasn't saying that it's "weird" to not lose your virginity by the end of high school (although i guess the average age is 17), i was just talking about a first kiss. FIRST KISS!!! You don't have to be Miss Popularity to have a first kiss by the start of college, please. I think most people have had a first kiss by the age of 17. That's all I'm saying.

And then someone wrote this:

who act shocked when you tell them you never had sex in high school or college. We're not all blessed with the courage or ability to flirt with the opposite sex, let alone actually convince a person to have sex with us. I'm not a bad-looking guy (you'll have to trust me on this), but I've rarely been invited to parties or had other occassions to "pick up" women. I've just always been too shy.

Okay, fine, you don't invited to parties, but rarely "had other occassions to pick up women"? What about the 4 years' worth of college classes you attended, or the cafeteria?

This article could have been written about me. I had tons of friends, was and am, attractive, but I was a virgin until I was 26.

See, I was a bit shy about dating in highschool, so it didn't happen then. College would have been a great time, no? I mean all the guys around? Well I seemed to have plenty of male-friends, some who often offered to "walk me back to my house/apartment." after a late night. But it was all about the random, no-strings attached hook-up, and I got it in my head that the first time it happened I didn't want to be a) wasted or b) not able to recognize my de-flowerer in the light of day.

I did know it to be someone I cared about, not just a one-night thing. Otherwise it seemed like a lot of pain and risk of pregnancy/diseases for nothing. I know! Pretty selective, eh?

That oh-so high-standard ended up keeping un-sexed unitl I was 26. (My first time was awesome, by the way) No one really dates in your early twenties. I was scared to reveal my virginity to anyone after a couple guys cut and run at the announcement, assuming I was looking for a serious life-partner. (I most definitley was not)

I did feel like a freak. Only my closest friends knew about it. I heard that 25-year old virgins were uptight, conservative, mentally unstable. During such conversations I nodded and kept quiet. This caused so much anxiety, I was so afraid of people finding out.

My point is that virginity sounds very scary to the casual dater or someone wary of commitment. With all the unspoken rules of not-calling, not showing too much interest and acting cool, revealing your virginity INSTANTLY ups the stakes. Suddenly it is assumed that if you didn't lose it in your suburban rec room at the age of 16, then you are looking for "the one."

While I've noticed that Salon comment threads on the subject of the Middle East can be deeply irritating; and that threads related to the topic of race often quite offensive; THIS particular thread is just very very...depressing.

"one thing i find ironic is the people here who say "you have no right to judge me!" or "there's nothing wrong with me!" also go on at length to explain exactly what unique variables have led to their celibacy. I personally suffered great shame during a period i went without sex for many years, so i get it--but if you're making the point that its really not important to who you are, why defend yourself or your reasons?"

"If it really doesn't matter than who really cares about the reasons other than you?"

I care, because it helps me to not feel so alone. I don't see it as defensiveness at all. You may choose not to post about your issues, that's fine, but why should it concern you if other people do?

A lot of people seem to be freaking out about this. The virgins seem to feel they owe it to their partner. That it will somehow "matter" and their partner will find out anyways and it somehow makes them look bad not to tell.

And from the stories, it sounds like telling doesn't lead to sex.

So, for those who have decided they're truly interested in having sex --- perhaps they've found someone who they THINK they might fall in love with and are ready to go for it --- here's my advice.

There's no need to tell. It's not a crime. If this is some goodlooking person and you're just feeling horny, feel free to outright lie. If you're thinking you might be going for a relationship, don't outright lie if asked, but in subtler conversations vague phrases like, "It's been awhile," should keep the questions from coming.

IF you think that during sex it will become obvious, I think the only reason that would happen would be your own nervousness. If you've determined that this is a problem for you, take a valium or something.

Maybe you've read romance novels that say it's going to hurt and your hymen(?) will be torn. You can have your doctor verify that it no longer stretches across if you like --- I remember hearing once that age or tampons make that a non-issue.

If you're concerned about your performance, rent a pornographic video. You don't need to initiate all that stuff if you don't want to, but at least you'll know more about the possibilities. I remember being surprised by all the rubbing and aiming to achieve contact.

On a personal note, it took me about a week after having sex with my now husband to get over a strong, irrational feeling of aversion toward him afterward. Totally unexpected, and I understood the reason for it, but man, was I glad when that resolved itself.

Just thought I'd lay out a plan of attack, and what to expect, for those who've decided this has become too inconvenient to them.