i usually agree with pretty much everything you say, you are a voice of sanity and common sense in a forum that has a lot of extreme positions.

But I don't think that it is necessarily abusive for a child to see a parent naked.

For some of us who live in small houses, share bathrooms, etc. It may happen that the child sees the parent showering, getting dressed, etc.

IMHO the best tact is to aim for modesty, but if they do see you, don't make a big deal of it, treat it as a minor accident. And then cover up.

now taking photos of parents naked with children depends on the context... in the bedroom... No! At a nudist colony... ok!

"He Said, He Said . . ."

Now the other guy is lying too? Except that he's not and neither was the author but since somebody else could have been lying then well....

"why are so many people defending sex abuse of children"

WOW, just wow. You've gone way off the deep end.

"Exactly what is the difference between a "full blown" investigation and an investigation?

You keep on throwing around these words, with no real definition, as to what you mean by it."

Sigh. Far be it for me to expect you to be able to connect the dots. But I've done it several times already (in addition to the author's bringing up the distinction in the first place)--what's a few more?

Operational definitions:

1) preliminary investigation=

A. a trained expert assesses whether the report is valid (e.g, a single photo of a baby whose diaper is slipping off their rump would be considered insufficient evidence to make a formal, full-blown investigation)

B. if the expert deems necessary, contact and interview all parties involved

2) full-blown investigation (or whatever the hell you want to call it)= after careful assessment through the prelim investigation, the next stage could proceed with contacting employers, teachers, etc., and home search.

It doesn't matter what you call the various stages, the crucial difference is this: granting legal authority to the investigating body (DCFS, in this case) to contact employers, teachers, etc., as well as conduct a home search without warrant, is SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT from simply evaluating the evidence and investigating the involved parties. For instance, family members could lose jobs and careers from the former; not so with the latter.

Why you continue to wash over this distinction is very odd to me, and represents either willful obstinance or an inability to understand the weight and consequences of making a PUBLIC investigation. But I obviously can't do your thinking for you. Connect those dots.

"Yes, we do know penises were visible to the 8 year old girl, the author himself said they took a picture of everyone pissing in the campfire"

The author said they took a picture of everyone pissing; NOT that penises were visible. Although I said this all in my last post, you don't appear to have understood it. So I'll say it again, though shorter: it's possible to pee without showing your wee-wee! Yup--try it! If you're a guy, you just turn your body away, so only the urine stream shows. Amazing!

Is it clear now, Mojo?

"Once they were orginally turned over the system was legally obliged to fully investigate period. I think that's Kendra's point, no?"

KStone, exactly. Thanks for the succinct summary.

Mojo,

You keep talking about experts who say that it's not okay for a child to see their parents genitalia...who are thse experts? Let us know. Quote them, if you will...or are you making them up?

Nobody is defending the sex abuse of children. Some of us are just saying that seeing your parents genitalia is not necessarily abuse.

We all have our blind spot, that place where we make a mountain out of a molehill because we suffered through it and it's still unresolved. It's obvious to me that mojo was a victim of sexual abuse and has never really recovered or been through the kind of therapy that allows one a reasonable distance, an objectivity between what happened to them v. what the rest of the world may/may not be experiencing.

Mojo, who does quite often serve as the voice of reason across many other forums and issues, is really hung up on daddy's dick here, and can't seem to let go of it. Pardon the pun. Look, mojo, whatever you've been through, we're all here for you. Really. And I'm the 2nd letter writer--the first one to call BS on Jody's story. (And I still think he was at best stupid and at worst trying a little too hard to cover up some actual "issues.") And even though I feel that way, your attitude toward occasional, brief nudity let alone your issues surrounding the human body are way off the scale for even a prude.

Get the help you need, mojo. It isn't here in a letters forum. It's with a trained therapist. I honestly wish you well.

I know, I've been there myself. You can make it part of your past and even joke about it once you deal with it maturely.

. . . about this article, and this topic, that has everyone so exercised, so self-righteous, and often so unkind? Just what is so threatening here? Some people hear the jackboots of the Gestapo in the workings of an imperfect system for child protection that was appropriately (in my view) allowed to check out some iffy photos. Others feel the prying eyes and hands of sexual predators in a situation that was (in my view, assuming that the author is what we call a "reliable narrator") innocent, if offensive to some. Why is everyone so over the top?

To "No Name Given" (Thursday 1:36 pm)

Well, I'm a parent and I'll tell you flat out that there is NO way I could live with the kind of stress that these four parents went through and not have my kids pick up on it and be stressed themselves. Kids whose parents are living in fear--especially fear ABOUT THE KIDS themselves--would have to be superhuman not to show it in some way. And I have learned from bitter experience that it is better to tell them something than to try to brazen it out. I've tried both, and the latter is way more stressful to the kids. They worry MORE when they realize you don't want to tell them what the trouble is.

But whether you tell them (which will upset them, no matter how carefully you try to phrase it) or don't tell them and try to act normal, they are going to experience a level of stress that I at least would consider "major."