i meant to say "constantly criticizED" there.

also, i just read jug's post and it started me thinking about whether people like lw's bf can really act all that differently in relationships with others... thoughts? is it just a matter of time until jug's ex starts criticizing her new bf?

Forgetting to put the milk back in the fridge now and then is a flaw. Occasional lateness is a flaw. Snoring (if it isn't a health problem a la sleep apnea) is a flaw. What the LW is describing in her boyfriend is a pattern of emotional abuse and profound disconnection from reality.

There are flaws that we just have to accept as being part of the people we love. (My roommate's inability to take the trash out. My inability to kill bugs.) And then there's behavior that's unacceptable in a relationship of equals.

But it's worth pointing out that not only should women recognize verbal abuse for what it is, they should understand that it is often a precursor to physical abuse. He may not hit you for years, because he's waiting until he's sure your self esteem is low enough that you'll blame yourself when he hits you. If it takes 7 or 8 years of criticizing every little thing before you take a smack upside the head and find yourself apologizing for not being perfect, many abusers are willing to wait.

LW, please don't let it get to that point.

I've seen mass hysteria in the letters at Salon before, but this reaction just takes the cake.

The guy has issues (and I'll bet you money the LW does too) but good grief, people! I'm thinking "hmm, he sounds like a naggy grouch." And you're all "ZOMGWTFBBQ DTMFA 911 SOS!!!!" Alllllrighty then.

And the book someone mentioned about "verbally abusive relationships"--hah! Thanks for referencing that. I looked it up on Amazon and had a great time gawking in disbelief at the quackery in there (it's not written by a clinician and is based on interviews with 40 women who self-identified as "victims" of men who did things like not talking, talking, forgetting, and persistently remembering.) That's a real piece of work.

So, LW's boyfriend is a naggy grouch. Before labeling him as a mentally ill ogre (I counted 5 DSM-IV diagnoses thrown out by the "experts" in the letters section) maybe the LW should drag him in for couples counseling. Or try a different way of communicating--maybe he'd do better with a letter format, for instance, rather than conversation. I mean if she wants to leave him, she should feel free to do so. But I'm guessing that other than his horrible, "abusive" propensity to nag her about turning off the light in the spare room, he might have some redeeming features. Just maybe...

Well wouldn't "constantly criticizing" work too?

JugS's prescription is precisely what I would advise too. Precisely. I would advise going to couples counseling, too, if you couldn't talk productively together, but YMMV.

Now: Can we not be honest about a few things? First, if your relationship is a joy and has great equilibrium, that's great. I'm not saying it's impossible.

But can't we admit that:

1) Most people are either dominant or submissive in a relationship?

2) And that the dominant ones here, too, will slip from "dominant" to "domineering" and unreasonable, just like the letter-writer's man, if someone doesn't set boundaries? ("yes, except that my reasons are always Perfectly Good!"--well, the LW's man thinks his are, too)? Would everyone here want their own domineering ways and arguments videotaped, and compared with the LW's man's behavior? A lot of people would come off as being precisely like him, even among those criticizing him.

3) Submissive people can just as easily slip into the bad habit of mumbling their objection at 1 decibel and pretending they've covered it? Why would they? Because

4) No-one wants to look like a wimp (in point 3) or a harpy (in point 2), so they create Alibis. The LW might say: "Oh, I kept trying to tell him!" or her man might say: "Oh, she broke up with _me!_"

When really, it often goes like this: Little Miss/ter Nothing (quietly): "num-num-num-num-num." Dominator/trix: "What? Can't hear you!" LMN: "Oh, never mind." Later, LMN to girlfriends over Cosmos: "Well did you ever tell him?" "Yeah, all the time--he never listened." (And georgetown, when I said "it sounds like the LW may not have said a peep," that doesn't mean you should conclude I'm "not listening" just because the dictionary defines "peep" as 1 decibel, and the VU meter shows that she actually did peep once. ;))

Not everyone BS's around like that. But come on--a lot of people do. They create excuses. What the person below said was true: maybe the guy's being a dick because he wants her to break up, so he doesn't look like the bad guy. Domineering people sometimes do that. Maybe the letter writer never spoke as clearly as JugSouthgate and I suggest, because she wanted a better alibi for dumping him. People don't want to look bad. And there are all kinds of ways to look bad, if one partner in a relationship looks like a control freak, and the other may look like a wimp or a bs-ing excuse-maker.

OTOH, some people do the above, Without looking for the exits--they just had relationships badly modeled for them, maybe, but still want the relationship to work. Can those here saying the guy is a dangerous criminal, to be fled at once, really say that they've never been an unreasonable control freak? I'm more submissive, and I won't say I've never needed to learn to speak up, as the LW should.

... but it sure could've been. I'm in that situation right now.

The only good advice I can give, since I'm struggling with the same thing, is this: He does not own you. Remember that.

You must have friends - by this I mean that I'm sure you have them and it is necessary to maintain ties to them. See them more, call them tonight, talk to them. Tell them everything, all of it.

Do the most powerful thing possible: refuse to keep his behavior secret. Tell your friends. Tell his friends. Tell his family. Find out if it is a pattern, which you can only do by asking. If he is embarrassed that he's behaving like an abusive creep, well, that's not your problem.

Having an advocate, meaning a lawyer, advise you of your options, might be useful.