--There are so many kids out there aching for an adult who will love them enough to try to prevent them from making a huge mistake...wake up sir, before your son messes up his and her life. -- cjmath

Hey look, cjmath, and everyone else who's patting themselves on the back and giving themselves "I'm the Best Parent" awards, simply because they're the strictest sexual-enjoyment-prohibitors:

As I mentioned below, my first sexual experience happened when I was 17 and the girl was 15. You know what? It wasn't a "huge mistake," whether you in your arrogance declare so or not. I fell in love. It was a beautiful, treasured experience. Millions of teens have done so, from the dawn of time, are doing so, and will continue to do so. Millions of others, yes, simply indulge in sexual play. Horreur!!! Well if you can't tell the difference between a 16 and 17 year-old falling in love, or playing, and real child molestation (which is the thing that should be illegal), then you shouldn't be so sure of your perfect, Christlike judgment.

You people. Not only do you not deserve the Good Parent awards you're congratulating yourselves with, you shouldn't be allowed within 100 miles of a young person, let alone supervising one. You prescribe destroying teens' lives--no, you clamor for the opportunity to sue people into poverty, have their kids (well, only the boys, for some reason, for some of you) and thrown into jail, because two kids fell in love, or played together, like millions of others of us have (presumably, none of you did?). Of those teens you'd gleefully throw in jail, are you worried about the ones who'd get raped in prison; who'd lose their minds; who'd lose any hope of a good career; or those who would simply make a noose out of their sheets and kill themselves, because this was just a bit too much for them to face?

What's your answer to that fact? "Well it's their own fault! And the parents'!" That's it. That's not just cold. You're vicious.

You people are monsters.

A key theme was stated reasonably by Mercedes von Uppity in her (? I assume?) last post. That is that, hey, being that this is my house, I don't like the idea of just anybody sneaking into it. Who is this person? Is she okay? Is she bad news? Is she someone I'd really like as a potential daughter-in-law, for that matter?

Although the "put 'em all in prison, ruin their lives and sue 'em" battleaxes (do they yell at the stage "serves 'em right! Kill 'em!" when they watch Romeo and Juliet die?) really set me off, I think that was a very good point, and Mercedes and those bringing up similar points, I definitely want to acknowledge you, and don't mean to class you with the battleaxes.

But in my opinion, it's actually a separate issue from the sex. Think about it: if your teen was hanging around with anyone else, but NOT having any sex with them, if the person was bad news, you'd intervene: "uh...I hate to say this, but I just don't want that guy in my house again." Right? But if you felt the person was good news, you'd introduce yourself, offer a soda, and that would be that. So approach someone your teen may be attracted to in the same way. Is this someone okay, or does s/he seem like such bad news that I'd intervene, if sex weren't even a question?

For some, that's not enough. As far as feeling like, "well, I also don't think someone under 18 should ever have sex," lapcas (sp?) mentioned that all of her friends had had sex before they graduated high school. So did most of mine. I think the super-strict parents are fooling themselves that their own kids don't. But if you want to lay down the law, ground your kid, yell, whatever else, until they're old enough to escape from you, then sure, that's your choice as a parent.

It's just when it gets to bringing down the law on two teen kids who do what--please--most teen kids do, and destroy their lives to make themselves feel proud that they're strong parents, if it's not obvious how satanic that is, then these types should visit a prison.

A nice change from the usual narrow-minded censure.

As a mother of 2 children, I hope I never have to go through this kind of bullshit with them. Nine chances out of ten my husband and I will have problems, but heres the thing it won't happen in my house. If that was my son you better believe I would be dragging his ass as well as his girlfriends ass out the door. It seems like today children have no respect for their parents-just look at the television shows out there. The parents are always portrayed as stupid and clueless and the child knows more than them. It just isn't real, and honestly it's annoying. To me that 17 year old has no respect for his parents at all, and if he is old enough to make such an adult decision, then he should have to move out. Also don't even get me started about teenagers having sex. I'm surprised he even knew where to stick it. These teens feel that having sex makes them more of an adult, and the truth is it doesn't. You are not older and wiser, and know the world inside out because you had sex. You have to experience life to do so. All I can say is this dad better put his foot down and fast because if not then he, with his wife are going to be spending a lot of time with their new grandchild.

First, you need to have a serious conversation with yourself, and perhaps with your therapist or men's CR group, about spirituality. What is your spiritual focus? What is your spiritual connection with your son? I'm not talking about religion; I'm talking about values, shared values, meaning and purpose. Because the fact that you're surprised is a red flag.

Yes, kids that age don't communicate well. But to not know whether your child is sexually active is a sign you're out of touch with your own awareness of your child. Busy is no excuse. Even when you're at odds, you need to know where your child is mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

Once you've had the talk with yourself (and you'd better have it right away!), you have the talk with your son. What's he thinking? Who is she to him? How does this fit with his values? With hers? Who and where are her parents and what is her relationship with them? (They could easily become the other grandparents of your grandchild, so this is important.)

Yeah, sex is great and special and natural but in our culture it is also An Issue. So you can't blow it off. Normal kids become sexually active somewhere between 12 and 25. It's important that they act in harmony with their own values; that they not make babies they're too young to bear or raise; that they not break the law.

You've got a lot of catch-up work to do. Get help from a professional who can help you clarify your (plural) thoughts and values. Be thankful that you have a great son.