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Monday, August 18, 2008 12:00 AM

Doctors fighting about money: Now that's rich

His parents paid for everything and mine did not. So I'm in debt and he isn't. Why are we fighting about this?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 04:20 PM

Couldn't agree more....

... with Cosmic Mojo, particularly the part about taking responsibility for your own decisions. This business of blaming him for the "idea" of siphoning money out of your retired parents -- no fly, sorry. You should never have even floated that notion to your parents, and they should not be in a position of having to acquiesce to it.

Sounds like you've been unable to say NO to this quite unreasonable person, and -- honey -- that's not a recipe for nirvana. You say he's "nice," but given gems like "I wish I had thought twice before marrying someone in so much debt" and hitting up your social-security-dependent parents -- well, at that point, us objective bystanders are gonna worry about your perceptions, hm? 'Cause those are not the actions/words of a "nice" guy.

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 07:29 AM

I am with Cosmic Mojo here

I once dated a surgical resident and nothing annoyed me more than hearing him whine about being paid minimum wage. Dear LW and sympathetic friends: minimum wage applies to HOURLY and NON-EXEMPT salaried workers. The entire concept is misapplied when you start using it in conjunction with doctors and other professionals. Many professionals go through periods of their lives when they work for "minimum wage." Indeed, most small business owners work for minimum wage for a lot of the time if you included every hour they put into the enterprise. In that respect, doctors are actually exceedingly fortunate that their low wage sojourns are well-bounded by their training years.

Wealthy people are not ipso facto money obsessed assholes. Many are quite aware of how fortunate they have been in life and quite generous. I can only think of my husband's very well-off parents, and note that they have never, ever mentioned the fact that their wealth outstrips my parents' by many times. I am actually astonished at the degree to which LW's husband is so focused on her parents' wealth. LW needs to assess her husband's punitive and demeaning actions towards her family for what they are and decide whether this is the kind of person she wants to live with for the rest of her life.

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 06:11 AM

@ cosmic joe

Residents work on average between 100 to 120 hours per week. Divided by the hour, she will in fact be making around minimum wage (per hour). However, she'll be earning at least 40K per year.

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 06:08 AM

Could this be about race?

I'm jumping in a little late to this discussion, but I sense that there may be racial issues involved. I get the sense that LW came from a lower-middle class white family. She mentioned her that her parents initially rejected her husband-to-be but later came to accept him. Since he was a man from a well-off family, attending a private (and I'm assuming prestigious medical school), I can't imagine why else her parents would find fault with him. If this is the case, I can imagine why there would be lingering resentment on his part and how money would signify just one of the many cultural differences that exist between these families.

Still the husband was way out of line by telling his wife that he regretted the marriage because of her debt and insisting that her elderly parents reimburse them for wedding expenses. But I get the sense that he's focusing on money because its tangible. Perhaps work on exploring and celebrating your cultural differences and the money won't be as important to your husband.

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 05:19 AM

though i will be earning only slightly above minimum wage for awhile

What a lie. Minimum wage would be about $13,000 a year. Residency is FOUR TIMES THAT. You're really more like your husband, lying to get sympathy.

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 05:14 AM

but he did have very different circumstances than i,

I have spent some time with some very wealthy people, through my volunteer work (wealthy donors) and some freinds who are trust fund babies (they don't even work). LET ME BE CLEAR: having money does NOT make you rude, contolling, hating and mean. That is NO excuse. Stop making excuses for this man. He acts with hate and contol and he chose those acts because he's mean, not because he grew up in comfort. Please don't excuse away his acts.

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 05:05 AM

LW

You need to practice accountability. You like to do things and then say "it was my husband's idea" to absolve yourself of any responsibility. He sounds horrible with no soul, I can't imagine what was attracitve about him other than his money. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too, be with the wealthy man, let him CONTROL you, but SAY you don't care about money, say things were his idea, and get off for any personal responsibility for your choices.

From this day forward, eveything that happens to you is 100% your choice, your responsibility. Forge the life YOU want and accept responsibility for those choices. Stop making excuses, blaming others, obeying control.

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 09:27 PM

Thanks for clarifying

Dear LW,

thank you for responding.

I disagree with the second part of Cary's answer. You are not responsible for addressing your husband's potential insecurities about money. You don't have to convince him that your medical school debt is "good debt". That is his work as an adult and frankly your values may never align for a good marriage of equal partners. Regardless of your parents, debts or whatever else, you do have an absolute right to be treated respectfully and to work through disagreements in a mutually healthy way.

Undoubtedly my answer is coloured by my personal experience. I thought my husband loved me. In one sudden and disconcerting afternoon, after reading Patricia Evan's excellent book "Verbal Abuse", I realized he did NOT love me and that he had "bad intent" towards me. The universe shifted around me as the puzzle of my marriage finally began making sense and I began to fight free of my fog of guilt, perfectionism and wishful thinking.

It is said that, "seeing is believing" but the reverse of the old saw is also true, that "believing is seeing".

My thoughts are with you.

I wish you a centered heart, a clear mind and alignment with your gut as you figure out your path.

take care

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 06:39 PM

To piledhigheranddeeper

Thank you for writing to us. You did clear up a few things that were not clear in your original letter to Cary. For example, when you described the arguments that your husband uses against you, it sounded like you were describing your own beliefs. In light of your new comments, it seems that many of us did not give you helpful responses. But hopefully, Cary's answer and some of our responses might be helpful to you.

In some of these responses (besides the ones that say "divorce him" or "fuck him" or "he's an asshole"), perhaps you will find some arguments that you can use to convince your husband that: 1) your educational debt is "good debt", 2) borrowing that money was the only way to pay for your education, 3) it is ridiculous to argue that your parents (who lacked the means) should have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for your college education, 4) there is no reason why your parents were obligated to pay for your wedding, 5) you should not be taking any money from your parents now, and 6) you should provide assistance to your elderly parents whenever they need it. Perhaps he's right when he says that you should not "lend" any of HIS money to your other relatives (to whom you are not directly obligated), but your parents are different--you have a special obligation to them, since they raised you and provided for you.

I suspect that you will not be able to convince him to change his mind. I hope you find a way to deal with that. I think you need to put HIS arguments out of your mind, since they are causing you so much pain and frustration. You need to keep your mind focused and think clearly about your debt and your relationship with your parents. Hold fast to your own beliefs, and don't let your husband get you down.

As others have said, life as an intern is very stressful. You need to have a loving, supportive relationship with your husband. As long as you are mostly satisfied with your marriage, that's a good sign, considering your circumstances. If he makes you happy (does he?), then I don't think you should divorce him just because he's snooty or just because he disagrees with you about money. But you need to put your foot down and tell him that he needs to treat you with love and respect at all times. If he is obsessed with the idea that you need to extract money from your parents, then tell him it's his problem, and he needs to get his mind on something else, because you are not going to take any money from your parents, and that's the end of it. You have to be firm with your husband. You are not inferior or subservient to him; you are his equal, and you are his partner. You can still be loving to him even if you stand your own ground. If you can be strong, then the two of you can be strong together. That's what you need to do.

I wish you all the best.

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