Letters to the Editor
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O.K. kuhnigget and Tallesan
Of course, human beliefs per se do not keep aircraft flying. But human beliefs do keep people getting up in the morning, making plans and promises, inventing institutions that work around (others') irrationalities, using money, creating art, dreaming of better, feeling unique, learning about nature, inventing airplanes, planting crops for our kids, loving (believing in) others, engaging in politics...all the while thinking It's All Worthwhile (for which there is not a shred of evidence, by the way).
In my view, it's not only natural (or engineering) science that keeps us from "tottering back to the dark ages," but also centuries of philosophy that tried to understand and make sense of older religious convictions, keeping the best elements of them, even as it worked to transcend them. I am with William James here: observe the consequences of beliefs as much as their content: good-bad (or useful-unuseful) does not always map neatly onto scientific-unscientific, as much as science aficionados like you and I wished it did.
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@ michaelben
Okay, I'm willing to say there's value in spirituality and philosophy, all that stuff.
BUT, the subject here is teaching COUNTERFACTUALISM. Young Earth Creationism is blatantly A LIE. It's different from myth. It's not a poetic truth. Not a flower. Not SCIENCE. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. This isn't just harmless fluffy daisies and taking away the ability to dream and create meaning.
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yup
In my view, it's not only natural (or engineering) science that keeps us from "tottering back to the dark ages," but also centuries of philosophy
...and art, literature, etc.
I agree. But while we may have an aesthetic reaction to a really good bit of science (I find current trends in astrophysics incredibly beautiful), we do not confuse the aesthetics with the science itself. That is the issue here, as so many others have pointed out.
Unfortunately, that separation is not maintained by religious fundamentalists such as the ones mentioned by the LW.
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The alternative creation
The Biblical creation myth was written by the Prophet Ezekiel (in reality a group of scholars set up around 600BC (probably by Cyrus the Great of Persia) to create a version of Zoroastrianism for the desert tribes. The Zoroastrian creation was too complex for them, semi literate nomadic desert dewllers that they were.
The Zoroastrian creation myth however has first The Ancient of Days saying "I am" then withdrawing and an unspecified time later, Ormazd (the light) creating order in the world by driving an axle through its centre vertically, dividing it into four quarters (the seasons) and measuring the four-weekly cycle of the moon and the annual cycle of the sun, thus creating the calendar. All this happened "long long ago" (before the flood which was between 11,000 and 14,000 yeas ago according to the best scientific evidence)
It's too big and idea to compress into a paragraph but you can see the allegory. "I am" represents the beginning of self awareness in homo sapiens, the measuring of the year is the beginning of enlightenment, science, liberal arts, law etc. or The Light, Ormazd.
Given the ancients spoke allegorically rather than reporting factually as we do, this description of the creation as the creation by early humans of the world through knowledge is rather beautiful I think.
Tell your friend he should wake up to the other middle eastern mythologies, they are much less confusing.
If you want to know more contact me via my link (you can send a personal message via the blog engine)
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Myths are fine for religion and creative writing...
but science is based on observation, as you point out, and all observations show that the creationist myth is incorrect. So fine, teach it as a quaint story but do not teach it as science. That is a great disservice to children, and goes beyond just how the earth came to be. If students are taught they can disregard our observations and "believe" what they want, how will we convince them that our actions are destroying the earth with pollution, warming, and a myriad of other consequences of our behaviors. They will have been taught they can ignore the facts and "believe" whatever makes them feel good. Teaching creationism as science is a threat to the survival of the (actually many) species...
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Scary People
Intolerant people are the people who are scared and disturbed by other people’s beliefs. Jesus taught love and tolerance, can it get any simpler than that? Admittedly tolerance should not gloss over basic human rights… like when religions kill or mutilate children etc. But teaching a bible based science class is not going to hurt any children…and in this day and age and the internet! it is unlikely that they will be able to grow up without hearing some other views.
Cary, I loved your response, it brought tears to my eyes. You are a good and tolerant man. Thank you.
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michaelben
First off:
Totally aside from the point of what science classes are supposed to teach. You want to learn about art you do it in an art class.
Second:
Money is far from irrational.
It is a medium of exchange which allows us to trade goods and services more conveniently than would be the case in a barter system. On a societal level this reduces the amount of work required to survive and improves our living standard. (My work is very money centric, so I tend to feel strongly about this one.)
Third:
Belief may be said to motivate action in that it is in essence a form of thought - you perform an action in the belief that you will get a reaction - however belief in something without evidence and in contradiction to the evidence that is available, tends to lead to bad things happening, whether that belief is religious or not.
Belief must be tempered with room for doubt and this is part of why religion is a bad influence on mankind, it is a belief system without evidence to support it, that when met with contradiction requires not a change in that belief system, but the elimination of the contradiction.
That is what is happening with the school mentioned by LW, the facts plainly contradict young earth creationism. It isn't just evolution that does this, there are other fields that contradict this form of creationism. It is a point blank wrong theory - the facts don't bear it out.
What this means is the students at that school are going to get taught lies, which will stunt their educational development should they want to go in for the sciences, further they are going to be taught that science is just a theory.
When they grow up and vote this is going to have the same effect it has always had, those children will to a large extent be impoverished. One only needs look at the Bible Belt of America to see this for yourself - it isn't a hive of prosperity.
They will also grow up more likely to vote against scientific advance, they will be less likely to accept scientific judgements - which is part of why there is such a problem in America with accepting Global Warming. When the facts contradict the global warming denier, they try to come up with conspiracy theories to cling on their beliefs. It is a habit of faith.
This means that the gradual decline of science in America will become more pronounced because the scientific method is not ruled by belief but by evidence and so long as beliefs are considered all equal whether the evidence supports them or not, so long as we have this idea that people of differing beliefs are like animals in a zoo, to be celebrated for their diversity, this is going to be the future.
A belief must only be held as strongly as the evidence involved supports it. I believe Obama is going to be a good president, but should the evidence if he becomes president go against that belief, my opinion will change.
We need to stop stopping arguing with people who believe ridiculous things. Belief is not a wonderful thing to be celebrated, it is is simply an abstract to be challenged when it does not conform to reality.