Letters to the Editor
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Oh for crying out loud...!
To all those raving about how the LW is a self-righteous do-gooder, get over yourselves. She is not being self-righteous or obnoxious at all. She simply sees friends she cares about making choices that could possibly have a very negative impact on their lives. As a caring friend, she wants to help and is asking for the most appropriate way to do that. She's not trying to rub her good life in their faces.
Friends care about each other and try to help. If LWs young friends tell her they're not interested in having that conversation, then she should agree not to bring it up again. But there's nothing wrong with a good friend voicing his or her concern, as long as it's done politely and respectfully.
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You can't live thier lives for them
I just spent the weekend with one of my best friends and her children. Her kids are great kids but completely lacking in discipline. They are not on schedules, they eat whatever they want no matter how unbalanced in nutrition. Basically they need a steady hand and some consistent boundaries. My friend and her husband are not providing that.
I can see the train wreck that their life is going to become as these kids grow up. I can see the problems they are going to have to deal with in terms of aggression, poor health, poor education, the potential to fall into drugs or something even worse.
When the kids are in my house I have the right to step in and set boundaries for them. To their credit, they respond well. I can see what lovely kids they could be if only their parents did the same.
But I can't live their lives for them. I can't parent their kids for them. I could try to tell them how to parent their kids, but that would make me a busybody. I know how much it would piss me off to have someone try to tell me how to raise my kids. It's a highly personal thing, raising children.
It's also a highly personal thing handling finances. Your friends might benefit from what you know about debt and handling money. But unless you are thier accountant, it's not your job.
Let them know how much you care about them. Let them know that no matter what they are going through, you are ready to be there for them. If they ask for help, give it to them. But to step in unasked is to pass judgement and to try and push them around in a matter that is sensitive and personal and really none of your business.
It's a fine line. But if you don't stay on the right side of it, you will sadly find yourself out two friends.
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Sorry Anonymous
Sorry for shooting off my mouth about your situation. I don't really know your situation.
Sometimes, when it's late at night, and I've been working too long, with both too much and not enough coffee, it's really easy to just type type type without thinking much.
Good luck in your situation. My sympathy is sincere. It's not pity.
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@ Xrandadu
Thanks for the gracious apology and the well wishes. Both accepted, and good night to you as well --
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been there, done that
Like the letter writer's friends, I was heavily in student loan debt from getting my Ph.D, to the tune of 60k. That wasn't because I was a spendthrift, but it was due to the sheer amount of time I had to spend at university (10 years) and the fact that I did it all myself without family help. Despite working 20-30 hours per week while going to school, I had to borrow a little each year to get by. My guess is that is what happened to the young couple here.
Unlike the couple he described, when finally emerging from studentdom at age 29, I spent the next ten years living like a student to pay the debts back and socked everything else into a retirement plan and savings account. I learned a big lesson about being tied to debts, and vowed never to borrow again. Now I'm 40, and thankfully because I married another compulsive saver a couple years ago, we have no debt and a $750,000 in assets that earn more money for us. Since we moved to a country that provides health care, I now only work part-time so we can have some nice holidays, and spend the rest of my time on writing projects that interest me. Was it worth it being a scrounge and deferring gratification? Yup, every penny. My time is mostly my own, and it is feeling worth more than money can buy.
Conveying to these young people how being master of your financial fate feels will be a lot more effective than implying frivolous spending is "bad" and saving is "good." It is more like saving with a plan equals empowerment, and splashing out on a few luxuries now and again can be part of that financial plan. It is all about empowerment, not guilt.
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Advice?
Unless you are a complete and total moron getting out of debt does not require the advice of someone older and wiser. The relevant mathematics is no higher than 7th grade level. You have to spend less than your income and use the difference to pay down your debt. If they need someone to explain that too them then they are in very big trouble. That's why this whole thing is nonsense. I have very little sympathy for people like that. They are spoiled and they aren't will to do without things that their peers have. So they go into debt. Its not due to ignorance about the mathematical mechanics of living. Its due to ego.
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Don't EVER offer advice unless it's asked for
LW, imagine saying one of the following to your friends:
"We've just begun a new eating and exercise routine, and we'd like to help you get started on that too, because if you keep up your crappy habits, you're going to die before your time."
"Guess what? We stopped smoking! Really! And we'd like to help you do the same, because we care about you and lung cancer is a killer."
"We made a pact to give up watching TV, because it rots your brain. Why don't you do the same, so you don't turn stupid?"
You'd be lucky to escape without having something heavy thrown at you, right?
So what do you do? As many posters have suggested, talk about yourselves and your experiences if you want, but do it in a subtle way so your friends can learn from you or not, their choice.
It's almost impossible to talk about "you" without coming across like a condescending ass. So don't do it.