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Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:00 AM

Should I come out as an atheist?

I've been lying to my family, my friends and my religious university -- I don't believe in God! I don't! I don't!

The letters thread is now closed.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 10:44 AM

honesty and tolerance a two-way streets

The thing you're doing wrong is feeling guilty.

You have a perfectly moral reason to "lie": self-defense.

You're sorrounded by dangerous, intolerant, superstitious fanatics. They think those who disagree with their beliefs deserve to be tortured for all eternity. Yet they expect tolerance and honesty from non-believers!

They are lying to themselves because they fear death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management

Has your school government support? tax exemptions? do the moral thing: take away a fanatic's education.

Lie back to them, they are not worth your honesty.

Friday, October 26, 2007 12:22 PM

Bad Religion - You're mistaken

I didn't say Hitler was an atheist, I just pointed out that his atrocities were not carried out in the name of religion (nationalism and racial purity in his case). His regime also persecuted religous people, notably the Jews (you may have heard of this) as well as both Catholic and Protestants clergy who did not go along with his rule.

As for the "do you really feel sorry for the Russian nobility" thing - that is also incorrect. Firstly, the nobility was pretty much gone by the time Stalin rolled around - the millions he killed included Kulaks, Jews, and anyone else who got in his way. It was a totally rational thing to do, of course. Secondly, yes I do feel sorry for the members nobility who were butchered by the Bolshevics. Or do you think it's OK to murder women and children because of their membership in a certain 'class'? I'm sure Pol Pot would be right there with you on that one.

As for the communist atrocities of the 20th century being a historical anomaly, I'd have to say "WTF"? That's a pretty high body count to constitute an anomaly. And both sides trace their roots back to the 18th radical 'rationalism' that led to the Terror during the French Revolution. (OK, well, maybe Nazism was more of a reaction to that, but that's another story). And there are plenty of other examples of mass terror/murder that have nothing really to do with religion (Japan in China in the 30's, eg.)

So my point is that laying all the ills of the world at the door of organized religion is just plain incorrect.

Friday, October 26, 2007 01:46 PM

wow

such a long letter for such a small problem. so who is this vapor we are supposed to account to? the deeply religious - now that is a category of humans i keep away from. get a telescope i say and look at the sky , see all the galaxies and supernovas, read about the branes and parallel universes and see just how a little homey vapor can rule your world. for me, it is a miracle that there are people with brains in this vast complex. that is enough for me without worrying about some dude with a beard. also dont label yourself as an atheist. a person signed a contract for an education, thats enough. let them be with their fanciful ideas about life and the beyond. study and be grateful for their college.

Friday, October 26, 2007 02:22 PM

Certainly a historical anomaly. Why does that confuse you?

The population of the world was vastly higher from the twentieth century than it had been in previous eras. Also, the technology for mass killing had developed vastly by then.

Take the historical long view. Those 20th century communists some people love to mention are, when you put it all in perspective, an anomaly.

If there was no religion, there would be no Jews. Without Jews, the Holocaust would only have been about half the size, if it happened at all.

Sam Harris says this better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLIKAyzeIw4

He starts addressing your concern at about the 3 minute mark.

As for certain people being punished for their membership in a certain class, it really depends. That's the sort of thing you have to judge on a case-by-case basis. Pol Pot picked the wrong targets.

Friday, October 26, 2007 02:34 PM

@ Bad Religion

About your query about where I live: Sorry but I don't feel comfortable posting that information on the internet. The town is small enough and my post history long and detailed enough that I might be identified by someone who wished to pursue my identity.

My daughter lives in Dallas. I live in North Texas.

Friday, October 26, 2007 04:24 PM

Athiesm

You might be happier at a school where there are more people like yourself. But if you choose to stay where you are, you have no obligation to anyone to declare your beliefs. Hopefully you will make friends with others who think as you do and will be able to freely discuss the many facets of this complicated subject. I have been an athiest since I was in my teens. Because my friends in college were at least nominal Christians, I kept my beliefs to myself and never felt there was anything wrong with that. I was lucky enough to work in a place where I could join a group of colleagues who saw the world as I did.

Here's a story that might amuse you. We had a Buddhist exchange student from Thailand when my children were in high school. One day she told me about a classmate who approached her to tell her about God and Jesus. She told me she listened politely, but had a hard time keeping a straight face. To her the concept of a man sitting in the sky on a throne was very funny.

Friday, October 26, 2007 04:49 PM

OK, no problem

I understand perfectly.

I also realize I erred in preposition usage in my previous message.

Saturday, October 27, 2007 06:47 AM

transfer

Ms. Tennis is way overthinking this. The problem is not your beliefs or lack of them. It is the school you chose and the dishonesty implicit in the statement you signed. So fess up, be forgiven and stay, or move out. Insofar as all the handwringing implicit in the answer to your letter, it's not what you believe. It's what you dont believe, which is a supernatural explanation for existence, or as in the medical profession, you just ruled out the biblical explanation. And by the way Cary, the possibility of unexplainable events, as in for instance the 34% of Americans who believe in ghosts, is also a nonstarter. That they havent been explained doesnt mean they wont be someday, if in fact they exist, which I highly doubt. The mind is a wonderfully fertile organ, and in a legal setting as in any other which is evidence driven, i.e., science, given the choice between eye-witness testimony and a bloody glove found behind a bush, who you gonna believe me, or your tired old eyes?

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