Letters to the Editor
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@Anonymous 10:46
Obviously 'For Better or for Worse' meant nothing to you...wonder if you would feel as generous if your husband cheated on you while you languished with breast cancer?
How do you compare someone dying of cancer with someone with diabetes and a low sex drive which had probably preceded his disease?
Someone who, when I asked him when the last time he had an erection (not snidely--I just wanted to know), said in a joking-but-with-an-edge-manner, "Shut up."
Someone who again, using humor to mask his weirdness about sex in general, saw that I'd bought a vibrator and called me a "pervert"?
Who has all but told me to go out and take care of myself with other men, and constantly jokes about the poolboy, the milkman, etc.?
He's finally starting to work on his diabetes and lose some weight, something like eight years after being diagnosed...maybe he will get his sex drive back, but maybe not...he hasn't shown much interest in years (and women in general seem to intimidate him. If he wanted to "cheat", I would be okay with it, but I seriously doubt he's ever been interested). Sex is a pain in the ass to him, though when I first met him he did have something like a normal drive, that gradually dissipated over the next decade.
Anyway, anonymous 10:46, you sound like you'd have a blast joining the Taliban and stoning people. Try calming down a bit, will ya?
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Morality? What's THAT? Spoken by a lib. cliche cliche
Saying it's about "the lying" is a way to give the person who's upset the moral high ground.
God forbid anyone should have morals.
the only women usually defending skank behavior are themselves skanks.
Fine, as long as they do not sucker in non skanks with their lies.
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Perhaps advice from a reformed serial cheater would help?
I'm not surprised by all the vehemence this issue raises for so many. I, too, cheated on every boyfriend I'd ever had since I was 14. During high school, I had two serious boyfriends w/year and a half relationships, but I kissed maybe 30 extra people while I was dating them. I often told the boyfriends, but sometimes not. In college I repeated the pattern, making out or actually having sex with one person after another. I lost two long-term boyfriends that way. I'd tell the boyfriend, usually in a guilt-stricken teary way less than a day after the event, and he'd cry. I'd watch him, saying the same repetitive things about how I was sorry, and I didn't know why I had done it, and the whole time I'd feel sad inside, but mostly - blank. I knew enough to know that it wasn't right, to feel briefly annoyed that the trauma-apology-forgiveness conversation always took so long, or that it was such a big deal to the boyfriend. I knew that it was. I knew that I should have more compassion than I did. But both of these were intellectual tidbits of knowledge - not felt. To me, it seemed that the stray kissing I'd done earlier at a party or wherever had "just happened" to me, that it was separate from the great and happy relationship I was having with my person. Funnily enough, to therapists back then I used to say that in my opinion, I had a great relationship with my boyfriend - minus this small problem of the kissing other people thing. They'd say I was acting out, that I was passive aggressively punishing him b/c I couldn't say what I wanted, and I would think that wasn't it. I felt happy - the only thing that made me unhappy was that I was such a pain-causing monster in this one area, while a fine friend and daughter and compassionate human in all other areas. Finally, after losing so many that I loved, I decided to take a year of celibacy and to not commit to anyone until I was sure that monogamy was something I could hold myself to. I was single for three years, albeit dating. Now I've met my person, and I finally am not afraid that I will fuck it up. So far we've had two great years. The point of this tangent is this: I never learned why I did what I did. I know that I had a desperate need for approval, and not enough innate dignity. If a man found me attractive, I wanted that power over him. I was a junkie for it, and like the junkie, I could not see that I was part of the problem - it seemed like men just "happened" to me, without encouragement on my part. There was a timidity there about saying no. I found myself so drunk on sexual approval, whether temporary or not, that I couldn't see the big picture in those moments. I love sex and I'm a sexual person, not ashamed of my promiscuity in the past at all. But I do wish that I'd only fooled around with people who were worth the experience - the whole experience, including the consequences. Be careful, LW. You're doing damage to yourself - not just your husband. It's first and foremost to yourself. Good luck.
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@CocoMademoiselle
My experience has been that people are more open to different kinds of relationships, not lying and cheating. I would lump that myth into the rest of the horse shit we are taught about Europe in puritanical America. Also, I think the radicals in this conversation like to fantasize that there's a place where their behavior is tolerated and accepted, and why not a place where the people are also sexier? :P
Sorry, Europe is not some magical fairy land where dishonesty is just another part of the intoxicating landscape, like patisseries and gondolas.
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Boill this down.
What's with the sociopathy tangent? The woman is a sex addict, starved for attention and male affirmation.
She does need help. She's going to ruin her life. She is not going to be in her 30s forever.
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"Monica" as explained by Cali
No, frankly, it's not just some bullshit to point out the lying as an excuse to moralize.
Frankly, I don't care what the "liberal" read Democrat line on this is. The agreeing to be monogamous if anything is a civil agreement. Clinton broke a law.
Now, it's my contention that he shouldn't have been a total wuss about it and just refused to answer the question. Whatever your beliefs, it was no one's business other than his, Hillary's and Monica's. However, he tried to take the easy way out, and people legitimately had a problem with it. I also think that what they were asking wasn't particularly relevent through on spectrum, and very relevant to workplace discourse across the nation. How isn't the President guilty of workplace sexual harassment in that case? At any other workplace, the sheer imbalance in positions would make it de facto harassment, regardless of consent.
I think the whole thing was ridiculous, and he should have just head it off at the pass, because honestly it isn't anyone's business. But, getting mad at the lying isn't just a front for some people. And for others, I can't necessarily say they are wrong in their disappointment. If you can't at the very least respect your wife enough to keep things on the down low, how much respect does he have for anyone else? Or the more fundamental viewpoint shared by millions: If he can't honor his pact with his wife, how can he honor his pact with America? Many don't buy into the premise you can be an ethical person in one sphere of your life and not the other, as it eventually leaks out. I don't share this viewpoint per se, but I also don't think the thing was as harmless as everyone makes it out to be. He may have some individualistic human right to have relationships of his choosing. But his actions had consequences.
And the problem with the lying (in addition to the cheating) is when the cheating is discovered, and it will be, the cuckolded man will never be able to sort it all out and be 100 percent sure of ANY of the facts? Is her story the total truth? even if she totally levels, he is always gonna have a twinge of self-doubt about her true activities. And it's gonna hurt double if he ever finds out that she does things with her lovers that she won't do for him. Then he is REALLY going to wonder a) on what he missed out on b) why he wasn't good enough and c) what else she did.
It's BS. You either are upfront with people, have a mitigating cirumstance that amounts to much more than "im bored" or "I want it" or you leave.