Letters to the Editor
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Yeah, she's _real_ secure in her marriage...
>If she's the type of girl who even wants to go to a strip club with the guys, she's never going to get married herself<
>>^ what a horrible judgemental hating incorrect statement^
also shows a lot of jealously<<
Eheheh. These are the type of women who back-in-the-day would have said, "If she's the type of girl who would work in an office with _men,_/vote/be divorced she's never going to get married herself." Insecure wifeys are worse than guys like Brightstar--they hate unconventional women as well, and do their best to sabotage them. It's ironic--as much as marriage is hyped as the one-size-fits all solution to feeling alone and insecure, it sure generates a lot of loneliness and insecurity. ;)
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Just an opinion
I personally liked Cary's response a lot. I also like the response of all the people who have told LW to use the time her husband is out with his friends to do something for herself, or have her own "girls night out."
If the wedding is the type of affair where everyone is playing by "the rules" in performing all the nuptial rituals from engagement to honeymoon (God knows what they all are, but I had a sister-in-law from hell who insisted on having every one of them checked off), then the groom really should be playing by "the rules" as well. If there is going to be a bachelor party, "the rules" as I understand them dictate that it is for guys only. Otherwise it is not a bachelor party. It may be a party of some sort, or a shower, or whatever, but it is not a "bachelor party." (Didn't anyone ever see the movie???) Bachelor parties are for guys only. Do I need to say this, but, duh. Women get their "wedding showers."
Here's the kicker. I am gay, and I don't give a sh!t about any of this stuff - if I want to see a stripper I just go to a gay bar with a stripper. (Though I have been to my fair share of hetro bachelor parties to know how this is all supposed to go down.) I don't know who made up all these "rules" or where they came from, nor do I care one iota about whether they are followed or not. So, is best friend who is a girl going to the bachelor party breaking "the rules?" I would say she is.
The whole thing is a construct of ritual or behavior, that as Cary has pointed out, is essentially meaningless in and of itself. I would go a step further and say, though, that it can have value, but only as imbued by the participants. If girl breaks "the rules" and goes to bachelor party, she has violated the terms of the social construct as it defines the bachelor party, however it's such a stupid thing to dwell on. If girl ends up taking the groom or groomsman back to her place and stchumping them silly, then that action takes on a bit more meaning. LW, if it bugs you that much, then just invite yourself along as well. If anyone objects, just say that you don't trust hubby alone - the men will all nod and think your husband is a total pussy-wiped wuss, but that will be the end of any objections.
Seriously, straight people get so uptight about the weirdest things.
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Awesome!
Good ol' non-judgemental Cary drops the bomb on the bachelor party. Now I'm gonna smoke me a cee-gar, get on my motor-sickle and...ROCK ON! While I try to think up some more examples of Psychic Viagra.
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I am ever disappointed...
...that my husband of many years likes porn, strip clubs, and generally is an asshole and a sexist when it comes to women he doesn't know. (I am also disappointed that he would try to hide his salacious side from me, even as I understand it.)
Porn, strip clubs, the objectifying and debasing dark sides of sexuality really offend me and hurt deeply on a gut level. My husband and most otherwise intelligent, kind men realize this, and it is troubling and sad that they continue to indulge themselves regardless. Maybe they really are helpless slaves to their dicks, I don't know.
If my husband was invited to a strip club bachelor party, he would want to go-- I'm damned if I oppose and look like a harpy, and damned if I meekly go along and feel like a dishrag.
Cary is right... life sucks.
--Anon 101
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You're marrying a guy who thinks going to a strip club is Really Kool?
Does he collect action figures, too?
I can see y'all in 10 years: you'll be buying dishtowels and scrimping for your kids' college fund, while he's busy buying a snowmobile and a big screen TV.
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But...
>There are also (OF COURSE) perfectly normal friendships between men and women. But to pretend a that a lot of these "friendships" aren't a form of social tender is completely false.<
For one thing, the LW has no proof that the groom's friendship with this woman is anything more than just a friendship. For another, what would it have to do with LW's husband in the first place. It's not "women like this" who are the problem. It's the fact that some married women are so insecure that they think every single single woman is gunning for their man. Such women are the ones who need to check themselves and ask if they have any real grounds for their feelings. I feel very strongly about this because I've seen a fair amount of my married female friends start thinking the craziest, delusional crap about their single friends once they get that ring on their finger. And there's a condescension in their attitude as well that is just as bad ("I'm wifey now, so of _course_ all my poor unmarried single friends are gonna be lusting after my may-n, even if he's a control freak or a shlub or in-no-way-George-Clooney.")
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to LW
you assume she'll talk about you because that's what you'd do. meow
luckily this woman is probably a lot more self-confidant and will just focus on celebrating her best freind's upcoming nupials.
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Deering's response
Yeah, I don't know Deering...it seems like you're making a number of assumptions also.
For one thing, the LW might know, at least on a gut level, that this woman is playing games. For another, you have absolutely no proof whatsoever of what kind of woman the LW is either, nor did she display any arrogance about being married (although admittedly a bit of paranoia about single women).
My point was simply that some women play games in the sexual arena, because it is a place where they will get a lot of attention from men and where most women have insecurities due to the fact that (like another poster said) we are supposed to just look the other way with this stuff, because those same men are "otherwise intelligent" and so forth. But I wasn't trying to address anything about the men and their behavior...only one effect of women's lesser social status on women themselves, and that is the tendency to try to dominate other women in the sexual arena.
That one woman who said in her post that "most women hate me" is a case in point. Women who tote that one proudly I steer away from as far and as quickly as possible. And I'm not particularly "girly" either. I am a 30-something woman with a lot of male friends, who does martial arts and is very blunt/successful in business, doesn't have children, isn't married, dislikes tea parties and baby showers and thank you notes, and (if I do say so myself) am attractive...and women like me just fine. In fact, most of my friends are women.
I agree that it is very sad when women obsess on this stuff...my point was that she isn't necessarily being "sexist" or "jealous." And (unlike what Cary said) it isn't all about her husband going to a bachelor party with the woman being there simply being a "red herring" that isn't the real issue. The woman being there is very much an issue!
I also liked the man's post about honesty in relationships though...he made some great points, albeit different ones than what I was trying to address, which is about women playing games with other women.