Letters to the Editor
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also, scath
i rescind my yammering comment. not nice. it's just fun to be an incendiary anon sometimes. not much else to do around here.
being an incendiary, yammering, and fully identified poster is fun too though.
blah blah blah.
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@ recent anon
good point. most of the time it's not even that women want to doll up, but that they're considered gross or lazy or unprofessional if they don't.
and i am not saying that going out in pjs and bedhead is anywhere near acceptable. i'm a proud slob when i roll like that. :) but there is nothing near equality or sanity or freedom when it comes to acceptable modes of appearance for women.
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Some people
Are really attractive. Others, really unattractive. The majority of us are pegged somewhere in between. Everyone wants to be the most attractive person in the world. Right?
Well even they aren't 100% happy with how they look. Gisele Bundchen recently made a comment that she doesn't think guys find her as attractive as they did half a decade ago. I'm sure Pitt or Damon would change something if they could.
It comes down to making peace with yourself and humanity. If you aren't happy with your shape - work out. Guess what? It makes you look better and feel better and you will live longer. If you're worried about people looking at you - dress more modestly. If you're worried about people looking at your daughter - thank God your alive today and not when the Vikings roamed. If you look too intently at women - make it a game to not look at that chick's tits who is about to walk by, right.... now. If you don't like your boyfriend looking at chicks, subtly let him know. If he wants to keep looking, not so-sublty let him go.
People will always look at other people. Often, it will be uncomfortable for someone. But, if you've made peace with yourself and humanity, you'll most likely deal with the situation better.
If it helps - there will always be someone hotter, younger, fitter, sexier, wealthier, smarter, more sophisticated, and with better taste than you.
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Last post
First, I'm sorry - it is very difficult in writing to catch all the nuances. For instance, when presented with all the possible options clearly there are cases when people wear makeup or pumps that aren't an attempt at attention (sorry if I implied otherwise). It would take a lot of pages (and I've already spent way more time than I should) to catch all the details and caveats etc. I just ask you to read around that to get the basic point.
Not that it matters anyway - it was more hypothetical and this has really been beaten to hell. However it is the sort of thing I wish guys and gals (I hate that word) could talk about less defensively (and that certainly goes both ways).
So, to Anonymous (aka "simerator"), if you forgive me, I'll do likewise. Also you're right, oogling is gross no matter what. I'm really just arguing for stealing a discreet look now and then. And apparently losing.
Have a good one all. I've got to get back to my real life.
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that's not it either, mike
it's about being free to be a whole human. maleness and femaleness have both been highly commodified and that really screws a lot of stuff up. it's hard work to unlearn that commodification and the attitudes and misconceptions it engenders- but it can be unlearned and it's worth it. the whole notion of a naturally existing hierarchy of beauty is pretty much BS- attractiveness is subjective, fluid, and patterns and preferences can be relearned or unlearned or influenced by all sorts of things. sure, there are traces of biology and evolutionary pressure in everyone's preferences, but there's also the whole long history of societal norms and taboos and practices and advertising and The Media and blah blah blah, and the resulting only appears to be "hardwired" or "natural" if you don't think too hard about all that various messy stuff. if you do think hard about it, hurrah! you're well on your way to being a well-adjusted appreciator of beauty and the human form and the human condition, with only the occasional throwback to your drooling, slavering, natural condition. or your coquettish whoring natural condition. whichever side you were on.
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a discreet glance now and then
scathew,
I don't see you as losing this argument. As far as I can tell, there isn't really any argument to be lost. I don't find that any of the anonymice or others who have been posting in response to you are arguing against a discreet glance now and then. To my reading, the ferocity of your argument, made it seem like you were writing in defense of a right to ogle. Perhaps we could all just agree that a discreet glance is a natural (for both men and women) and that, for most of us, it's only when discretion is not practiced that "looking" becomes a problem?
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@ anyonymous in PJs and flats
First of all, you've drawn a right conclusion, at least about some of us guys. (Others actually are only impressed by applied beautification, but there's something wrong with them, so forget I mentioned that). But there's more going on here, too. Oh god, here it comes. You've described yourself, to a certain degree, and you've done it in such a winning way that I have to conclude (being a very, very visual thinker) that you are a natural to start with, that you enjoy a huge advantage over those who feel they have to work so hard at being attractive and, finally, the reason you get ogled in your come-as-you-are style is because, forgive me, dear lady, but you are HOT!!
Shoot me now. I'm a drooling swine, a dawg, a man, even. And now I think I'm in love. Damn you!
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Discreet glances are fine
It's the less discreet stuff that worries us. It's the "let's strip her down to her skin and do her right here" glances, especially when it's our guy at another woman when we're right there. Blech. I'm glad I haven't been subjected to that.
Anyone who thinks that how a woman dresses makes that much difference has never been a woman. It doesn't matter. Even worse, men seem to have really weird taste, or maybe it's some form of male PMS that makes them glom onto anything female they see at a certain time of the month. I have no idea. I've given up on decoding the whole male visual attraction thing and have accepted it as a fact of life. Attempting to cater to it or defend myself from it is hopeless. I dress in a way that's comfortable for me and let the chips fall where they may.
Even still, though, if a man was openly sizing up the competition while we were together, I would remove myself from the running. If I have to fight my way through a sea of bimbos to get his attention, his attention isn't worth getting.