Without seeing the other posts, which I am certain will tell LW to ditch her, I have a few thoughts:

First, bravo Cary for the dancing veil images and for attempting to describe the indescribable. Some of it was very funny and perfect for this kind of madness. I agree with you on this one, love is between two souls and escapes logic and reason.

It IS like a bonfire out of control.

Is there a way to have something like this inside and not hurt others?

I wonder if the LW can know that it has everything to do with her and nothing to do with him or how much she loves him. At least he can know that, because it is almost a sure thing. For some reason, this woman needs the attentions and the specific attraction that comes from other men, men she isn't nec. attached to.

I know this feeling and intentionally seek deep friendships with men and women that are not based on this intoxicating and overwhelming attraction. Those feelings still come in certain situations and a few times I've not handled it with grace. Not what I want in my life because it's hard to miss that they will destroy connections I hold sacred. They will end up hurting someone, possibly everyone, because I don't know how to hide or compartmentalize that kind of thing. Maybe for my primary relationship, that is a good thing. Does it matter how much we love our lover, our sig. other? Is there a way through your years of marriage and kids and payments and domestic crap to have a bonfire with just that person?

Wouldn't it be easy to run to another when we are in a fight with our partner? It would be fun to dabble and experiment and play with all the ones that made us hot, but that is just a fantasy and...

fantasy is ALWAYS better than reality in this case.

Yep, just like the book you read that leads you to the disappointing film. Believe it. The grass appears so much greener. We think someone will "feed" us in some particular way when it has to come from within. LW, she is grasping at things that have sharp edges and has become entranced with them. I am sorry for you that your marriage has someone so addicted to the feeling of desire because in the end, even if she is just playing, you are being deceived. That must hurt and I would want to kill these men, or at least make their lives miserable. Maybe that's part of the unfolding drama/fantasy too.

It is certainly the stuff of movies, literature and music! In my music files I just found hundreds with only a glance.

When people make a committment to each other, esp. in marriage it usually means monogamy, unless you are like the last LW. That can be sticky too, eh? Cary is right on here, it's all so strange and confusing, the wonder of another, the bliss of connecting. Intoxication and release.

Your only hope to salvage this and make it work is to be very direct with her, with anyone involved. You may have to tie her to that chair( haha Cary!) and talk until you are exhausted. You may have to give an ultimatum and seek paths heading out and away. If she is committed she'll see your pain and find the strength to put you before herself. That would be love.

Really, I rarely insult a LW outright, but there you have it. Apparently, he craves humiliation but is unable to admit as much. If that's not the case, the solution is simple: Tell her to cut off all contact with John or else you'll leave and petition for custody of your daughter; then follow through.

Also, most men would physically threaten John, and call him unprintable names. Later, we'd remember the incident with considerable embarrassment, but at the time, we wouldn't be able to help ourselves. On account of our balls.

once something like this happens (with the continuousness and frequency that it does/did) it is over, whether the husband or wife does, whether the boyfriend/girlfriend does it, it is over. Better to properly plan and execute the exit and limit the financial damage. Divorce, when done right, is only unwinding a business deal gone bad to limit the losses. This guy has allowed himself to be whipped for more than a decade. It is his fault he has stayed. Never stay for the children, it's not helping them.

“This guy has allowed himself to be whipped for more than a decade.”

Yes he has. And that also makes me think that, for whatever screwed up reason, this LW is getting something out of it. His limits and your limits (or mine) are two different things. If he likes to play with fire we can’t stop him.

My main concern is that his wife screws him in court and moves out with the kid to John’s. That would be tragic and completely unfair and I can totally see it happening. As long as the LW protects himself from that whatever else floats his boat is fine with me if it’s cool with him.

I wrote you one of the first letters. After I sent it I felt that it was too brusque. It was true but brusque.

Cary was really nice to you and your situation.

An Emerson quote came to me that goes some way to explaining my brusqueness: "We do not quite forgive a giver. The hand that feeds us is in some danger of being bitten."

I thought too of a first girlfriend when I was 16. I was too passive. One day she comes walking down the highschool hallway holding some guy's hand and smiling up at him. I'm told I went white all day. Something in me said, "Never again." It never has happened again. I can't treat myself that way, to not be a stand-up person. I'll take a little crap, but only a little.

I liked the letter from the woman who described how she'd been like your wife, who did not blame her husband for her screwing around. I look at it a little differently: A stand-up person stands up to stand up, to be who they fully are, not to be attractive. But doing it - standing up - makes you more attractive. Not standing up makes you more unattractive. Spine is attractive. But it's an inside job. You get spine from the inside out. Though you may have it in all other areas of your life, you are describing not having it with your wife. Good luck with that.

Your wife needs more than you standing up. Good luck to the two of you.

Best,

Monty