Letters to the Editor
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Tara21, what you find understandable , i find abomiable
that not showing "fear and remorse" (or if totally in the right, sorrow, pity and terror). i don't have a problem saying i'm sorry. i don't know why, maybe because i need forgiveness so often. but if you *feel* sorry, why not say it? i know most folks (and not just men) find it almost impossible. but being common, even normal, doesn't make it right. and that very non-remorse makes forgiving and forgetting almost impossible. if he had been shocked and horrified about what almost happened, he would have acted better (the leaving and charging was what happens when you don't act correctly - while avoiding all semblance of guilt, you erase a huge portion of the world), this letter would never have been written and they would still be friends(it's doomed).
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to the Sugarman
I get what you're saying, but it IS normal for people to not always express their emotions. Life is too short for me to figure out why and whether or not this is right or wrong - i see it as one of those things that is hard to change, so i choose my battles in life. I'm willing to bend a little and work with people who can't express themselves with a high degree of emotional intelligence or articulateness, otherwise, i'd have to write so many people out of my life.
of course, yeh, it would be nice if the 'friend' didn't act like such a jerk.
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i see what you are saying Tara21 (didn't *you* say something like that?)
if someone is inarticulate, they still can *feel* - and you can tell, given your more intuitive self. but if they avoid *feeling* - not just the articulation, it's really hopeless. *especially* if it's a guy (what else?). i'm more articulate than (mostly, sometimes she surprises me) my wife, but i can tell what she means. she also finds it hard to say "sorry" - as do my two sons (my daughter seems to have learned my way, it's really easier, she also can say "i hate you" and while i take her *anger* seriously, i don't believe the *hatred* - it just lets her "emote" - and sometimes i don't even let her apologize - i know her so well). my older son looks downcast, my younger son, sheepish, my wife, angry (i have to pretend i'm in a huff and not speak to her for a few minutes, she then realizes she doesn't want that and we make up - and we've been married happily for 25 years)
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to the sugary man
what a cool, interesting post (the different styles of your family members and how well you understand them). Yes, big diff between not being able to express, and not even FEELING.
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Never Apoligize
I suspect there's more to this story than meets the eye, but my initial reaction is that the other guy was just being careful about his own legal liability. Any lawyer will advise you, I'm sure, never to apologize or admit any responsiblity in a situation which could result in a legal claim at some point. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut and say as little as possible. We may not like this, but it's reality, baby.
That said, billing for the expenses of the trip was definitely a faux pas in this situation.
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"Joe" is a Narcissist
Under diffferent circumstances, "Joe's" girlfriend or wife would be writing to CT about him cheating on her, then making it her fault for not giving him what he needs. The guy is a Narcissist. Narcissists never say they're sorry for anything. They never do anything wrong. It's always, somehow, the other person's fault.
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what rwanderman said ....
your now-ex-friend (or whatever) is exhibiting denial ... of the "shit happens" variety ... but most likely for him, what happened *is* genuinely a blur or a presumed "equipment failure" ...
I'm very sorry for what happened but climbing accidents (even with serious injuries and death) are a dime a dozen here in Colorado, usually attributed to "inexperience" or "over-confidence" -- both often involving going too fast
There's no real point in blaming anyone ... unfortunately this is how lessons get learned ... glad your boyfriend survived.
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Sucks for everyone..
but Joe is getting railroaded. His nasty reaction is probably due to the scapegoating he received. He was a novice and therefore not to be trusted as a belay partner in that situation. As a former climbing instructor I see this "systemic failure" as resting on the shoulders of the most experienced climber, or the host, of the climbing event.
If given a chance, I bet Joe will apoligize for his childish reactions. He must have been horrified.
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Response to trauma
My guess is that this incident was hugely traumatic to the LW and her anger toward Joe is both the righteous anger of someone toward a jerk and the sort of horrified rage when you realize that someone you love almost died due to a stupid accident - and that someone you love *will* one day die. So, there are two separate issues here.
If I were she, I'd go find a counselor and deal with the trauma of almost losing my dearly loved boyfriend. Then, I'd deal with how I felt about Joe - who sounds like an immature jerk. However, in retrospect, I almost feel sorry for him - not that I'd ever trust him again, of course. Would you really want to be the sort of person who billed an injured friend for *mileage* to the *hospital* when you were the one who put him there? Pathetic.
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Don't make judgments??
Wonderwoman wrote:
At what point did you first begin to judge other's ethics? Who else has let you down? Who have you watched take the easy way out? When did you lack the luxury of shirking responsibility? Why is this so important to you?
Everybody judges other people's ethics. It's how we figure out who to trust, and with what. And if you know ANYTHING about climbing, you have to know that it is NOT an every-man-for-himself kind of activity. It's about MUTUAL responsibility. Each person's actions can affect the safety of EVERYONE else. So if someone gets hurt, it is everybody's problem. There is no "well you know the risk". There is not weasely, whiny "I didn't mean to, so I don't have to own up to it". You shoulder your part of the burden and you figure out how to do everything possible to play safer next time, or you take your toys home and take up knitting.
And if some whining, childish dickhead bills you for helping you out and starts claiming that people don't get to "judge" him (while simutaneously judging everyone else for being so judgmental), you keep his dumb ass of the team until he can quit acting like a narcissistic baby.
My only advice for the LW is that she not go on any more climbing trips with this bozo, least she get stuck at the other end of a rope he's responsible for. Her boyfriend will hopefully do the same.