You may want to try some CODA meetings. Codependence is as powerful as the alcohol is for the alcoholic. Save the kids, get out and work on saving yourself. Otherwise there will be another user for you to enable appearing and staring in your life shortly.

There's nothing you can do but leave. Entreaties, threats, tears, nothing you do can keep your husband from being a drunk. Odds are, he'll never stop. The sort of Dark Night Of The Soul that can jar a drunk into quitting is exactly what the drinking is intended to protect him against. Avoiding a clear recognition of the problem is precisely the function that getting plastered serves for the chronic alcoholic. Apart from the physical addiction, the alcoholic is addicted to indulging his pathological aversion to psychic pain- to appropriate suffering.

If you threaten to leave him, he'll almost certainly just increase his drinking. If you leave him, he'll probably do the same. The only way you can win is by getting the hell out, and hoping that hitting bottom just might shock him into finding the strength to fight his addiction.

See? No hazy poetry about the special needs of adult male babies or abstract musings about the nature of interpersonal commitment and how if you sit in a meadow and ponder a ladybug for a while you might transcend to some higher plane where being tied to an alcoholic for life isn't so bad.

Thing is, as adults we can afford to take two or three steps down a bad staircase if it's just about us. Then maybe hazy abstract musings can be helpful...they help us decide how to try to look at things.

But with kids involved, there's only one priority: protect them. The cannot protect themselves and we have no right to indulge in risky choices when we're responsible for and to them.

That's why I don't have kids. I like doing things that are not healthy for kids to be around. Probably not healthy for me to be around, but that's my choice: I'm here for a good time, not a long time.

In this case, the fundamental fallacy of thought is that you can help an alcoholic by using the relationship (and the threatened dissolution thereof) a carrot or a stick.

The marriage may or may not survive this time, but you have to leave NOW without any promises of coming back or anything. These are his children, he will always be part of their lives and therefore yours. The healthiest thing for his children, and he MUST acknowledge this, is to be apart from him right now.

No problem with alcohol? As a childless adult if you want to get drunk more than is healthy, well, that might not be a problem. But it's a problem for your young children to EVER see you out of control on a drug, let alone on a regular basis, let even more alone on the holidays.

Focus on the children. Leave him to his path. If he finds his way out, great. If not, you'll be glad you left.

You are bargaining away your children's safety and well-being for your own selfish reason. You are taking HUGE risks with their lives. You are the only one capable of taking care of them right now. Get out now and make sure that your husband only has supervised visits after the divorce.

--a child of alcoholic parents

Just read this column, the advice was spot on if you ask me. But I wrote to thank you for the joke it was great. Sent it to some of the people who are happy I'm now sober so thanks.

Then he DOES still have a good reason to get healthy. His kids. I don't want to read the fact that you omitted this possibility as if i were reading tea leaves, but think about whether you think his attachment to his kids might eventually snap him out of this. If it ISN'T enough, you will surely not regret getting them away from his narcissistic self-destructiveness.

And this straightforward piece of advice applies to almost every other LW who writes in. You can control your behavior; you can't control the behavior of others nor should you try; and anytime children are involved get them as far away from the loser as fast as possible because that's what a responsible parent does.

It doesn't take a whole book to say that. Perhaps Salon should fund the publishing of his pamphlet instead, because that's all it takes. Not much money in it, but we still respect Tom Paine after all these years.

Dear LW-

It will not get better even if he stops drinking forever, this very minute. As you stated in your letter, you are (appropriately) very angry and don't know if you can get over it. You will get more angry when he gets sober.

If he gets sober everyone will be so proud of him and his sobriety. Anything you ask for to get your needs met will be seen as demanding and putting his recovery at risk. He will be the good guy and anything you do that can be construed as negative will brand you as a shrew.

Getting and staying sober is a huge accomplishment and worthy of positive attention, but it can be very difficult for the sober spouse who has been moving heaven and earth to keep the family going to see their prodigal spouse lauded as a hero while they are expected to continue to walk on eggshells.

Take the kids and go. He will make his own decision about whether to get sober or not, whether or not you are there. At least your kids will be safe. Do your homework before you go, however, make sure you can prevent him from having unsupervised visitation.

Good luck to you and your family

Everyone else has said it, but you can't hear it too many times; you can't make your husband quit drinking. Many if not most alcoholics and addicts need to hit rock bottom before they quit. Rock bottom is different for every addict; for many, it includes being left by a spouse. However, this doesn't mean your leaving him will sober him up.

Given that you cannot help your husband, you have to do what is right--and safe-- for yourself and your kids, and it sounds as if your kids are not in a healthy situation. Clearly, you cannot allow your children to ride in a car with your husband behind the wheel or be left alone with him. What's more, he can't be much of a father to them if he is drunk all the time. It sounds as if you yourself are reaching your breaking point. It may be time to leave.

Ultimately, you are going to need help to work through your own anger and resentment. I strongly urge you to go back to Al-Anon. It sounds as if you left the group because they didn't help you get your husband to quit. Al-Anon is for the family member, not the addict. Once you have given up trying to do the impossible, perhaps you will be more receptive to what Al-Anon can offer you as you make this decision.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you will help yourself and your children while you still can.