Dendrio,

thanks for calling out all the chest-beaters and complainers on this forum. Truly I do not get why they come back every day to post the same recurring. Stop reading or start your own column. 'nuff said.

because I read Cary's response. I usually skip that part and just read the letter and the letters to the editors.

1. Assume the deal will go bad and you will lose all your money. If you find that the prospect of this makes you not want to get into the deal, don't. If the prospect of this happening would make you rethink the friendship, double-don't.

2. If you lend money, draw up a contract for payback and interest. Both sign. People are less likely to renege when they've signed on the dotted.

3. If no money lending is involved, decide if you should be paid for your time. If so, put a value on that time and tell the friend up front: this will take x hours, my rate is $ per hour, I need 25% in advance, 50% at the midpoint, 25% at the conclusion. Put it in a contract.

I lost a great deal of money when a friend outright lied to me. The frienship fizzled. Later, the friend's spouse suffered a serious illness. I chose to revive the friendship but knew in advance the friend would never bring up the money lost. And I was right. I've chalked it up to a lesson learned and don't mix money with personal relationships any more unless a legal contract is involved - and even then only rarely.

its really interesting to read alot of these letters. they confirm something i believe you only learn with experience. which is - if you give money to friends, plan on the good chance that you might never get it back.

this in turn sometimes prevents one from giving more money than one can reasonably part with to a friend.

thanks,

matt

ps - or not - i mean this is just what i have decided works for me. i have had situations in the past where a friend couldnt pay me back but has helped in myriad other ways. social karma! :)

Since Cary replied to this question in view of his own experience, I'll reply in view of mine: An entrepreneurial friend of mine started a business, and asked a group of us to invest. We did, got stock certificates, and then discovered a number of unanticipated things: Our friend considered us some how responsible for working in his business; he didn't keep books (or didn't show them to us); and he was using the new business as a "front" to funnel money into a pre-existing business to which he devoted much of his time. (And in which none of us would have invested.) The business in which we invested flounders, and no one has ever seen a cent. If he sells it, which he occasionally talks about, there is no way of calculating how much our stock is worth, as his bookkeeping is nil.

This venture cost him several friendships and the respect of a few of us who remain friends with his wife. He has never once apologized for any of this -- in fact, he blames us for the business' failure to thrive.

The lesson here? Don't invest any money in someone's business that you ever expect to see again. Loans to a friend for school, or medical costs, are something quite different, investments in businesses should be kept completely separate from frienships. It's rare for both to succeed, and usually both fail.

And stay away from this "friend." Someone who operates this way doesn't have friends, just victims.

based on my experience where I have made similar misteps where I mixed up frienship with business ventures, I would say that in your case, you were not exposed deeply to heavy losses, therefore your position should not be too complicated. First, you have to admit that the moment you went into a venture with your friend, you agreed to face any situation. This is a fact that you cannot hide. Once you admit so, you could limit your losses by asking at each time to get back your funds. A partial reimburssement of $700 clearly indicates that your friend is somewhat honnest and is interrested to keep your friendship. If your friend paid you back the $700, I personnally don't see a problem making peace with him. It may take you time to get back your trust in him. In the meanwhile, put your inner feeling on the drive seat. Don't rush to any conclusion but give yourself time to bypass the original incident. In all, the blame is mutually shared. Time would also tell you later if friendship will survive or not. All would depend on how your natural feeling evolves one way or the other.

shoot, shovel, shut-up. that'll get the "renewing" off on the perfect start and the only "cost" is a shovel.

:~)face

I had a longtime friend who all of sudden decided I was the antichrist, ripping me to my wife and various mutual friends.

He'd been one of those friends from whom I'd grown apart over the years, anyway, and his wife was a pain in the ass, so it really didn't bother me much that he had decided I was a prick.

Then, about 8 years later, he all of a sudden decides for whatever reason that I am not a prick and shows up at my door as if nothing had happened.

I suppose I could try to drill down to find out why he thinks I am an ass, but it just is not worth it. I make no effort to do anything with him, and, as the ardor has waned, touching base once or twice a year seems sufficient.

So, you have this rather whacky wealthy loner who stiffed you out of some money who know all of a sudden is back around and willing to pay you less than you think was your sunk expense in the deal.

Is it really worth rehashing? Is it really worth rekindling?

If you take no action, the relationship will simply seek its own level. It likely will not be as close as it once was, but what was the value in that anyway?